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[SIC] Talks #72: Casey Lewis
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May 14, 2025
[Summary courtesy of Riverside's AI]: In this conversation, Ben and Casey discuss various topics including Casey's recent media appearances, the future of independent journalism, the use of hallucinogens by young people, the impact of social media on kids, and the trend of tweens experimenting with skincare. They also touch on the debate around parenting styles and the creation of new media vehicles for young people. They discuss the success of young media publications like Byline and the potential for reimagining print magazines for the digital age. They also explore the fascination with Gen Z's adoption of Nirvana and the evolving definition of 'preppy' among young people. Casey shares her plans for the future of afterschool, including talking to more young people and potentially offering a trend report or distillation of her newsletter. Ben expresses his support for Casey's work and offers to help in any way he can. Sound Bites "I could say something that could get me canceled or be the talk of the internet in this moment." "The state and future of media is not as bleak as we see with Vice and Complex." "Young people are actually doing mushrooms and ketamine." "They didn't grow up in these sort of antiquated, Conde Nast orbit." "There's something really interesting about print in this, another thing that I have in front of me, not for the purposes of this conversation, but I like have all these teen magazines around me always." "I could imagine a version of, uh, afterschool behind the second paywall where you're quizzing people on developments of the week." Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Casey's Recent News 01:18 The Future of Independent Journalism 06:36 Debunking the Smartphone Panic 12:04
View Video Transcript
0:00
Hey, everybody. Welcome back. This is Sick Talks number 72. I am joined by, in her second
0:07
appearance, Casey Lewis. Casey is a friend from the internet who has become a friend
0:13
in real life. I first encountered her through the Why Is This Interesting Monday Media Diet
0:20
I think, a couple of years back now, and gave Casey a shout and said, hey, would you come
0:24
on Sick Talk? And then as a function of that, got into afterschool, and it's now like maybe
0:29
my most essential source of news, at least for certain portions of my life. So big, big, big fan
0:36
and paying subscriber and would encourage all of you to do that. But Casey's got a bunch of new
0:40
news. So anyway, hi, Casey. Hi, Ben. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan of your
0:46
newsletter. So it is an honor to be here. Well, you did me a great service by agreeing to this
0:52
on very short notice, which I am very grateful for. And also, you know, it's indicative of my
0:58
general state of mind, right? Where I thought I had somebody booked and it turned out to be next
1:02
week. It was a whole thing. So anyway, you saved me. Thank you. So you, not to make too big a deal
1:11
of it, but you've been in the news a bunch lately for a variety of different reasons. One, you wrote
1:15
a big story in New York Magazine about shopping with tweens. Secondly, you've been suddenly become
1:23
a television personality by virtue of your new, I guess maybe like the TikTok is what kicked it
1:28
off, but you're, you're on what CNBC last week or two weeks ago. And then last week you announced
1:34
that you were leaving your job to do after school full time, which is, I mean, like tremendously
1:40
exciting. And for me, super edifying, but also like it's a huge step. So congratulations. I don't
1:46
know. There are a few things to talk about. Talk about a few things. Thank you so much, Ben. Yeah
1:52
The live TV thing is not something that I expected to happen for me
1:58
And also, it's like, frankly, kind of terrifying. Because you realize, like, as they're, like, you know, counting down, you're like, I could say something that could get me canceled or, like, be the, like, talk of the internet in this moment
2:12
Yeah. Yeah. And did you succeed? I haven't yet, but I'll be back on Friday
2:20
It's like a monthly thing now. Oh, wow. I didn't, so I didn't realize that
2:24
I thought maybe this was like subject matter expertise, but this is, this is. Yeah
2:28
So I have a simple opportunity to get myself canceled. Well, I mean, listen, you know, who got started in exactly this fashion was Scott Galloway
2:36
So I'm looking forward to your, you know, new tete-a-tete with, you know, Kara Fisher
2:41
or the Kara, whoever the Kara Fisher of the future is. I feel like you and, you and Emily Sundberg as the new Scott and Kara type thing
2:52
So, yeah, no, look, I just think it's tremendously exciting. And I also just I think we are we're approaching a we're approaching an interesting point of inflection where independent journalists, if you will accept that designation for the moment, start to start to exemplify the future state of media
3:15
And as I was telling you off camera, like I just came from a lunch that Kyle Chayka was the was the what's it called
3:25
Featured speaker at or the guest guest of honor or whatever. And in thinking about Kyle's work, both in founding Dirt, which he's no longer involved with, but also in with starting one thing
3:37
It really feels like there's a confluence of the newsletter impulse and mainstream journalism that I think is relatively new
3:48
And to see somebody like you embody it is exciting for me because you know your shit
3:54
So I don't know. There's no question there. That's just me going on
3:59
I mean I will say the sort of state of media is so bleak that to see newsletters to see even like
4:08
people like Kyle who is almost a product of of mainstream media I guess in a way but to see him
4:15
do all of these extremely interesting things and he's obviously an incredibly talented person but
4:20
like people like him give me hope that the state and future of media is not as bleak as you know
4:28
we see with Vice and Complex and all of these terrible headlines this last year alone, but also
4:34
the last five years alone, but also the last like 10 years alone. Like there's just been so much bad
4:39
media news, but to see people like him and all these sub stackers that we're seeing thrive, like
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Business of Fashion today just wrote about the beauty sub stackers. Last week, Vogue Business
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wrote about all the shopping sub stackers. Like so cool to see these independent creators make more
4:56
money than they ever could dream of making if they were employed by Condé Nast
5:00
Right. Well, that and then also just to be able to determine their own course and assert their
5:08
own personalities in a way that doesn't get subsumed by the larger organization or whatever
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the case is. What I also like about it is that people are able to pick a lane and go deep within it
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as you do with Gen Z, but also to deviate a little bit from it, right
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Like you don't, if I was on the city hall beat at a local newspaper
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I would be allowed to write about city hall. I would not be able to write about my interesting breakfast in my city hall space
5:43
Whereas the, you know, all of these independents have the opportunity to be like
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yeah, I don't feel like talking about Gen Z today. I want to talk about eggs
5:51
And then maybe you bring Gen Z back to eggs at some point later. When will Gen Z discover eggs, by the way
5:57
It's a good question. I think they've discovered dairy milk, so it's got eggs can't be too far, you know, far behind
6:06
Oh, my God. Casey, you know, like every time I'm once or twice a year, I try to send you something related to young people
6:15
And it might be an observation from one of my kids or it might be a story that I found or whatever
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and invariably you've seen it and I have a, have a better take on it. But is there a
6:25
is there anything over the last, like, I don't know, let's say the week or so, or even maybe a
6:30
story that, that might be referred to in the newsletter that jumps out at you as being
6:34
particularly interesting, indicative, salient, stupid. Oh man. I mean, so this story about
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young people and hallucinogens. I think that's fascinating, right? Like young people
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we're seeing all these headlines that young people are drinking less, they're not going out
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they're, you know, just generally, they're not having sex. Like just all of these things that
7:00
make them seem so straight laced, seemingly straight laced, but then to have days out here
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reporting from the ground that they're actually doing mushrooms and ketamine and a couple of drugs
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that I never even heard of, which made me feel like such a out of touch millennial
7:16
Wait, wait, so sorry. So you're not like a 2CB devotee? Yeah 2CB You know what funny is DMT I was not familiar with until the like Gen Z cusper who works at my local wine store brought up DMT
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Interesting. Which is interesting in and of itself, right? Like, the wine guy bringing up DMT
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But there's just like some really interesting things happening, I think, with young people and substances and, you know, choosing to maybe go out to dinner and pop magic mushroom chocolates instead of wine
7:55
Like there's just some really interesting things happening. Yeah, you know, it's really, it's funny. To riff on this a little bit, like, one of the themes of this lunch that I was just at was, apropos of Kyle's book, Filter World, which is out and is about how the algorithms from the big platforms flatten culture or just digital algorithms, generally, recommendation engines, flatten culture
8:16
One of the lines of discussion had to do with the idea of kids having everything served to them in a endless scroll style fashion where you never have to go and get anything
8:35
You never have to discover anything. The machine will do it for you if you want it to
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And I wonder to what extent the hallucinogen in particular, because it's such an inward experience or a dissociative experience
8:47
It's about the desire for discovery, right, in a way that they've never experienced because everything is given to them that way
8:57
I wonder if that's partially it. Yeah, that's a fascinating thought, especially I've been thinking like you include in the newsletter, the young people being over email jobs, like there's just like an interesting tension where, but at the same time, more young people than ever are not working or going to school. Right
9:19
People are living at home with their parents, men especially. So maybe like that does make sense why they want to sort of like drop out on a little ketamine
9:30
And maybe like what will come of that is they will be inspired to go out and leave the coddled like sort of surroundings of their parents' couch
9:43
Yeah. Well, you know, which is interesting because it ties into two things that I wanted to mention
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And one is that as far as DMT goes, I have a buddy, suburban dad in Maplewood, who recently told me about two things that he likes to do out there in Maplewood
10:01
One of them is vape DMT. And the other one is go to the Elks Lodge, apparently, because there's nothing cool or interesting
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And this is a very cool and interesting friend of mine. There's nothing cool or interesting out there. So these guys, he and a bunch of other dads have essentially made their own scene by joining the Elks Lodge, which apparently costs $80
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And the only like vow you have to take is that you won't overthrow the American government
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And so, yeah, exactly. And then they go and they get $3 beers and like Grateful Dead cover bands play
10:36
And it's all very funny. That's cool as hell. Yeah. I mean, so consequently, I don't know that it's just the Zs that are experimenting this way
10:47
But also the other thing that it ties into, and I really wanted to get your take on it because I think you have, you sit at such an interesting, I don't know what avenue for, I'm trying to avoid saying the word intersection because I think it's totally overused
11:03
But you sit at such an interesting location in this discourse is all of the conversation around Jonathan Haidt's new book and the notion that we are essentially ruining kids' brains by virtue of social platforms and so on and so forth
11:22
My feeling on the topic, having teenagers, is that we aren't giving that argument, while sound in some respects, doesn't give credit to the idea that these kids are durable and resilient and creative in their own way and just experiencing this in a fashion that's different to their parents
11:42
And at the same time, their parents are feeling the anxiety of their own experience and are projecting it back into this fever dream
11:50
I wonder, as somebody who thinks a lot about this generation of people, but doesn't have young kids or teenagers, where you land on that spectrum
12:04
Oh, man. I think if I were a parent, I would have more emotional feelings about this
12:13
My point of view is I grew up on the internet. I grew up on forums
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chat, like, like, um, aim chat. It was a very different time on the internet, but it also
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very much shaped me. And I think it is a little trite to claim that the internet was your lifeline
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but I do feel like that was very much the case because I'm from rural Missouri. And I had all
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these interests. Like I was interested in trends and, and super interested in style and I had teen
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magazines, but that was like once a month. And so the internet allowed me to learn about so many
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things that I would have like genuinely never, never been exposed to. Um, went to like from
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rural Missouri, went to university of Missouri for college. Like I would have genuinely not been
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exposed to so much like the internet. Like it's very possible. I wouldn't live in New York. Um
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not to say living in New York is the end all be all, but like my life, I think without the internet
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would be very different. So I think to sort of point to these smartphones and say, these are
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ruining young people's brains. These are ruining young people's lives. Like it's super reductive
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And I also think, um, there's bad, there's for sure bad. Yeah, of course. And it also makes me
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like, think about when I was growing up, my brother and I loved MTV. We also loved, there was a
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like a hip hop MTV. I can't remember. There's BT of course, but then you're probably talking
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about the video jukebox? Oh, you know what I'm thinking of, it was called direct effect and it
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was, I don't know that one. Okay. They're on MTV or yeah, I think it was on MTV. It was like
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and my brother and I would watch it while getting ready for school. And it would be like DMX video
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Like it was like, it was a lot of Busta rhymes. And I remember my parents being like, um, like
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this, these music videos are rotting your brain, like such a like cliched parent thing. And they
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weren't rotting our brains though. They were exposing my brother and I to a culture that we
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frankly did not have any insight to. And I love rap music to this day. Like it exposed me to a lot
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in a really good way. Was I also exposed to some darker sides of the internet at that point? Yeah
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we all did in our like aim chats. I do think like, you know, and of course, young people these days
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Snapchat, TikTok, all of these other apps are exposing them to good and bad. Like this whole
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app map thing, the pressures, like that sounds terrible for a kid
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But I also think a lot of these apps and they're, they're imparting experiences that young people
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might otherwise experience in a different way. Like clicks uh being excluded like all of these emotions are they difficult feelings but we used to exclude the girl from the lunch table That was a really shitty thing to do
15:05
Yeah, of course. But it's not different. I'm actually curious about what you see with your own kids with like these sort of like
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snap and like, do you see that? Does that impact them like emotionally
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uh i mean it must but i i but not in a way that i feel like is outsized or dangerous or you know
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creating unsafe pathologies or anything to that effect um you know and it's and look touch wood
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right because because i don't i am not monitoring their phones i don't see everything they see and
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so on and so forth but my i guess my and this is part of my sort of take on the whole issue is that
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my my daughter is is on snap and has the snaps map snap maps thing enabled in the same way as
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all her friends says that's what her friend group does my son doesn't even have snap doesn't care
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about it like only wants to participate in instagram and he's 17 so he should theoretically
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be a part of that whole universe just as much as my daughter is my son you know like i think it took
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him kind of a long time to get to the place where he felt like he could add to those discussions
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And so he mostly just kind of stayed out of them. And now he feels like he can add and he's very
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and he's, and he's active and, and, and very curious. And so I guess, you know, like
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the long story short is yes, I'm sure it affects them emotionally, but not in a way that I think
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is, is dangerous. And to your point is about experience. And so again, it just, it worries me
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that there's all of this hand-wringing, and particularly among millennial parents with young kids
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of like, oh my God, everything has to change. The devices have to go
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Which it doesn't strike me as pragmatic. And it also... The thing I like about Jonathan Haidt
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and we've been watching him, I've made the kids listen to him on Prof G
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and I've made Campbell watch him on HBO, on Bill Maher, was, was a, he is making a measured argument. It's just, everybody takes that argument
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metastasizes it and turns it into this panic, which is what we do right with digital stories
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generally. Yeah. I, I think it makes being a parent probably very stressful and complicated
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I just learned last week about, again, I'm not a parent, so I'm not exposed to a lot of these
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things, but learned about gentle parenting and how that's sort of like dividing young parents
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I don't know if this is something maybe because your kids are older, but someone with young kids was telling me about gentle parenting
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And you know who like you cannot say no in the house
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Yeah, that's totally insane. I mean, look, I am. I am a believer that you should give kids, you know, a long lead and you should let them experience stuff
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And you're going to and they are going to fall down and hurt themselves sometimes. And that's part of growing up and learning
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Um, so, so I guess maybe on the, the gentle to autocratic side, I'm maybe more gentle
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but like that, that, what you just said reminds me of somebody compiles Reddit posts and put
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put some on Instagram from time to time, former, former colleague of mine. And there was one where it was like, I am moving to Florida because I never want to wear shoes again
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I'm okay taking a job that doesn't pay me very much because I found a place to live for $200
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and just so long as I never have to wear shoes again. And it's that sort of argument. It's just
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like, what are you, what? Yeah. It's no, the enemy really, our shoes really the enemy here
18:49
Yeah. I mean, shoes might be the enemy. I mean, very well might be. Yeah. I don't know if you
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know this, but we live for millions of years without shoes. Anyway, something else with this
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you know, the social media, the smartphone, the like thinking about kind of bringing it to the
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like tween skincare, all those like fear mongering headlines of, is this really something we want to
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be stressed about? Like young people, young women in particular have always experimented with makeup
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Now they have more access. There's Sephora's everywhere. There's Sephora's in Kohl's department
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stores. Like young people have access to all these different brands. A lot of these brands are
19:30
packaged in very appealing, you know, drunk elephant, like looks like a lot of fun. But I
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think I did that story for New York Magazine and I talked to like 20 tweens and it was really
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really enlightening to talk to them because they all explored skincare in a like fun way. You know
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they were almost like you would like play with finger paints. Right. Finger paints. That's sort
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of interesting that that sorry to interrupt you but but the idea that like cosmetics are the new
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slime or alternately like they that cosmetics is where slime leads you to right it's that it's that
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super tactile almost asmre like you know personal experience anyway sorry go ahead yeah but it's
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like you know if you're a little bit too old to play dolls with your friends and you do grow out
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of that and I think today's kids and tweens still play with dolls this just the same but then you
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start to maybe experiment with makeup with your friends and I think the thing the interesting
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thing about skincare is as a parent you maybe don't want your kid to go out with red lipstick
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on or with a full face of makeup on but you kind of feel okay about your kid like slapping on some
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serum serum is expensive but for the most or it can be but for the most part it's funny because I
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I have my like a road. This is the Haley Bieber stuff right here. It's like
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just as I was talking to you, you're like, you know, looking at me, but I think the thing is
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like, unless you're using like an anti aging serum, which young people are not using that
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like they don't, it's fine. Like they're not going to hurt their skin. And I think
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I think back to my tween teen years reading 17 magazine, it, you know, those magazines sort of
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taught you to be obsessed with your skin back then. I had my clear assault. I had my clean and
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clear. I had all of this stuff. It's like really not that different now, except people, young people
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are learning about these things from TikTok and the internet versus teen magazines, RIP, because
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they don't really exist anymore in print form. Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting, right? We talked
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at the beginning about Kyle Chica and, and, and the success that you've had with after school
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kind of creating a new media vehicle, where do you see anybody creating new media vehicles
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for those kids outside of, you know, TikTok videos or whatever the case is? Like I can think
22:09
of a few examples. I mean, our friends at Byline being one, not, that's not obviously for
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young young it not for young Z maybe older Z right But I think those guys do a good job I am struck by like Lucian Smith For the People which is a collection of young artists coming together to learn and sort of benefit from one another that makes physical experiences and does publications kind of stuff
22:36
But I just wonder what you're seeing. Cause particularly like on the beauty side of things, that's I'm so far out of my depth. I have no idea what's going on
22:42
Yeah, that's, I mean, it's really hard to think about plays that any sort of media play that
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doesn't, that isn't existing on short form video. I think byline is a great example. And in fact
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was just talking to a friend about byline and how, what they're able to do is fast
23:02
Like they're in year two, or maybe they just hit. No, not even a year, not even a year yet
23:07
Going up at South by like, that is fascinating. And I think part of the reason that they're having the success that they are is because
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they are young and they didn't grow up. I know that Megan works at Vogue or maybe freelances, but they didn't grow up in these
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sort of like antiquated Condé Nast orbit. So they don't have these antiquated ideas of how
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a publication can interact with brands, can show like the Condé playbook or the curse or whatever
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you know, it's like they're so formulaic and they're so old school. This is how we can work
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with the brands. If you want to advertise in online, you have to buy a print ad or if you
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want to have a dinner, you have to, you know, it's just, whereas someone or, you know, the
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Byline Girls, it's like they're burning it all down and rethinking because this is a different
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time in media. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, please. I'm very, very hopeful that more
24:01
publications like Byline will exist. I love print. And I think there's something really interesting
24:06
about print in this. Another thing that I have in front of me, not for the purposes of this
24:12
conversation, but I like have all these teen magazines around me always. And I think what's
24:19
They have quizzes. They have so much like experiential stuff in here that I think would be really interesting if in 2024, the way that you could like interact with TikTok
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Like, what did you get on the quiz of what kind of boyfriend material are you
24:37
You know, that kind of stuff. Like, there's something really interesting about that. Because the thing I think that people forget about old school magazines or maybe not, but like there's a lot of like interactive stuff
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There's a lot of like, in addition to quizzes, there's interesting charts
24:52
They did so much fun stuff. And so I think that stuff could play very well on social media
24:57
And I'm hopeful that it will in some capacity. Yeah, that's kind of fascinating
25:02
I mean, and what it brings to mind for me is sort of in live brainstorm mode is two things
25:09
One, you know, I could imagine a version of after school behind the second paywall where you're quizzing people on developments of the week
25:24
And that's their way of, I don't know what, like competing with their peers or getting an after-school certification, good housekeeping seal of like, I know what's up with the thing
25:41
As a matter of fact, it's funny, a friend of mine, a woman that used to work at, she worked at Pepsi and then worked at Verizon, she used to give colleagues a cultural literacy test of her own devising
25:57
Or I think it was of her own devising, her and maybe some other people. But it was essentially a, like, do you know what we are talking about
26:06
Can we have any confidence at all that you're going to know what we're talking about
26:11
Let it ask you 10 questions. And the first, I always, I will never forget this. The first one
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was circa the Drake and future record. And it was fill in the blank. What a time to be
26:24
blank right now. You know, the answer, I know the answer. Many of their colleagues apparently did
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not, which I found, you know, gobsmacking, but, but in any case, I, so I could imagine you doing
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that and actually offering it as a service to like a B2B service to enterprise
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We'll work on the packaging off the mic. But the other thing that occurs to me is that for a byline or somebody else like that, I
26:55
mean, you know, Daisy at Dirt does a great job and there are others. You could turn that into a miniature version of the New York Times gaming direction and
27:07
make it not only a thing that attracts attention and engagement, but also then potentially
27:13
comes out and spins out as another business. Because what was the chart? Did you see the chart this week
27:18
I can't think of whose chart it was that showed that the New York Times, or I think it was
27:23
maybe in Today in Tabs, the Times news app has stayed exactly the same size for its entire history
27:31
Meanwhile, the games app has just gone like this. So that they are effectively like a gaming company, which is a vast oversimplification
27:41
But I also think it's kind of interesting. I think that's fascinating. And I love to see success stories like that, because I just saw a headline about a college newspaper, a campus newspaper, acquiring two local newspapers
27:55
and it's like if this is the state of local news that's wonderful that these two local newspapers
28:02
will see and live to see another day but also a little bit terrifying that campus newspapers are
28:08
out here acquiring local news so to hear a success story like the new york times and obviously the
28:13
new york times is larger than yes it's so wonderful to see that these places are thriving in different
28:21
ways, whether through gaming or, you know. Yeah. Or whatever their ancillary, whatever their
28:28
their ancillary revenue streams are. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. So Casey, I mean, you know this
28:36
because you've done the show before, but the ostensible purpose of the show is to sort of track
28:40
stories that are going to be in the newsletter, give people a little bit of a preview or your take
28:43
on them. We've talked about a couple already, but what were the other ones that jumped out at you
28:48
this week that that you know you wanted to comment upon or ask questions about uh well i will say the
28:55
one that haunted me the most and this has nothing to do with my own expertise but why is your
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apartment so dusty um i live as you can see for at least one more week right next to the bqe and
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my and i also have a dog and a cat and now also an additional foster dog and i feel like i am
29:14
constantly under a just a layer of filth of dust and so that one did jump out at me as as horrifying
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I read every word it did make me feel like slightly better that I wasn't alone in sort of
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living in this dust covered but I think about my mom who's like you know kind of a as many moms are
29:35
like constantly everything is clean and how a shape it would be of me but I just like come to
29:40
with this like layer of dust around me. But then to really answer the other story
29:48
that I think is worth talking about beyond dust is the Gen Z Nirvana headline in the Guardian
29:56
So the thing that I think is interesting about this, I mean, it's about Gen Z
29:59
Z discovering Nirvana various ways. One of the girls discovered it via a Kurt Cobain photo on Tumblr
30:06
But I also think it's interesting, and this article doesn't get into it, but Nirvana is having a whole moment with young people
30:15
Obviously, they're discovering their music, but also there's this thing among Gen Alpha where they're wearing Nirvana T-shirts
30:21
because Nirvana T-shirts are preppy. Preppy has taken on a totally different definition
30:27
which I'm sure you've touched on before, but I just think how interesting. I'm smiling because you've written about this, and I think your observation on it is really fascinating
30:36
So anyway, please continue. Well, I mean, it's just – so I have the Preppy Handbook from the 80s
30:40
I was obsessed with these sort of – before aesthetic was a buzzword, was very interested in these subcultures and the styles associated with them
30:47
And so, I mean, the official Preppy Handbook is such a classic whether you are into that style or not because it's such an interesting sort of – I mean, it's – from a visual standpoint, it's just an awesome book
30:59
Yeah, for sure. But that, you know, the definition that we think of when it comes to preppy is, you know
31:07
polo, plaid, very top sighters. Like, you're going golfing. Like, you know, there's really no, like, you and I could probably generally agree on everything
31:17
that we felt was preppy. And these gen alphas are coming out here saying, like, no, actually, preppy means basically
31:25
basic . It is Lululemon. And the fact that Nirvana t-shirts are in that same category, I just, I think I love youth
31:35
I think that this story is sort of like why I love youth culture and consumer trends in this area, in this space, because it's the rethinking of things
31:46
It's like we can say to them, no, no, that's not what preppy means
31:50
What we think doesn't matter. Yeah, exactly. You know, and I just, I love that constant like reinvention or, you know, rethinking of words or terms or styles or, you know, it's like young people are just so interesting because in some, you know, they don't have a lot of reference points, but that makes what they're sort of discovering and creating so fascinating
32:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's, look, the parallel, this is going to be a weird parallel, but there's a parallel that I thought of just a second ago with AI and language models, right? Like the large language model, aka 48-year-old Ben, has so much reference and can give so much context and has vast experience to point to
32:35
the the small language model can be much more focused and much more on point which is why
32:43
you know if i were to go to the party that my daughter informed me she wants to go to on
32:50
on friday night in williamsburg um which has a the invite is uh the the playboy cardi die lit cover with like the promoters names on top of it It very funny but it like I was just joking with I was like yeah Harper no
33:04
like I'll just put on my, I'll put on my teen outfit and I'll just go hang out at the party
33:08
with you. And she, and she's like, she's like, okay, you know, hello, fellow, how do you do
33:14
fellow kids? So, so ridiculous. You just, but my point more so is it's just like, they, they
33:19
they exactly to your, to your assertion, they take that those limitations and turn them into points of focus or like
33:28
you know, beams of light to the, that illuminate, you know, the point of view
33:32
the parties on grand Avenue. I'll, I'll send you the address later
33:36
You and I, I was just joking. I said to her, I was just like, I'm just going to go to, I'm going to go to the bar across the street and just sit in the window and
33:42
just drink a beer and watch. Just watch. Yeah. No, but I just, I, I, I got it
33:48
My wife and I have had a whole series of arguments about the appropriateness of our 14-year-old going to parties at nightclub venues
33:59
Now, to be clear, these are parties that are promoted by high school students who have rented the venue and are providing a non-alcoholic teen social experience for their peers
34:10
in the tradition of the ski crew. Well, not the prep school gangsters, right
34:17
That our boy Ezra Canning is writing about on the new Vampire Weekend record
34:22
But to my mind, I'm like, that's really exciting and healthy and should be encouraged
34:28
And my wife who grew up in a village in England is like, do you know what happens in nightclubs
34:35
I'm like, yes, we met in a nightclub. I know what happens in nightclubs. But in any case, it's a whole thing
34:42
Sorry. You got me on monologue day, Casey. Hilarious. No, that's hilarious. And I'm really glad that you brought up Vampire Weekend because I have been very interested
34:49
in the youth adoption of Vampire Weekend. Interesting. Which, I mean, it has yet to really take hold
34:57
Oh, okay. Gotcha. Okay. So I was wondering if you were going to tell me something I didn't know. No, but I think, so Vampire Weekend's first album
35:06
So when I was an intern in the city in 2008, Vampire Weekend did a show at Central Park
35:12
Remember, maybe they still do the summer stage? Yeah, they still do. It was a huge deal then
35:16
I was an intern at Teen Vogue, and my boss had gone to Columbia with Ezra
35:22
And I thought that she, I mean, I thought he was God, and I thought that she was like, I mean, it was just so much for my Missouri brain to take
35:30
But, you know, Vampire Weekend was such a moment for young people
35:34
and I think that they at least based on the first song that came out last week I really
35:39
think it will translate to this next the younger generation. Interesting. This is Mary Boone
35:44
you think Mary Boone is going to translate? Interesting. That's so funny
35:48
I just by weird happenstance I have been watching in sort of installments whenever I think of it Julie Schnabel film Basquiat right Which is the story of course of Jean Basquiat
36:05
but also includes all of the players in the 80s, the New York art scene
36:09
Mary Boone being a featured player and Parker Posey as her, you know, doing Mary Boone
36:18
Yeah, so there's something that, the culture is boon-pilled right now. There's something about it
36:22
uh yeah i but the album comes out this week right tomorrow no well tomorrow when people are watching
36:29
this on friday this friday so we'll have to do a follow-up or make a note maybe i'll do something
36:34
in my newsletter of like will it will will the young people will it be a call over tiktok
36:39
uh maybe not because they might be umg but well i wonder i mean casey i wonder you know speaking
36:46
of your sort of doing after school full-time now and and let's call it brand expansion i mean do
36:52
you start to go out and do one of those like woman on the street, like, Hey, can I play you this song
37:00
you know, in the vein of, can, you know, can I see your apartment or your sneaker collection or
37:04
whatever it is playing, playing Gen Z is the, uh, the, the, the records du jour would be kind of
37:09
interesting. The hope is if not a woman on the street gig, the hope is to talk to more young
37:16
people in some format, hopefully not me just accosting them on the street. I'm not, but that's
37:21
the good part. Okay. Yeah. You just need a, you just need a, you need a, uh, like an aggressive
37:27
producer. I know a few who will just like, he'll stop people and, you know, set them up for you
37:33
Um, well tell me, but, but, but in seriousness, that dumb idea aside, what, what is the, what is
37:39
the, the, the path forward for afterschool? Because it, it, like you've built such a valuable product
37:45
and you, I mean, at least if, if, if you believe the headlines, you are monetizing it in a very
37:51
effective way. You are universally beloved as far as I can tell. And so, um, yeah, I'm just
37:58
interested to know what else is on the horizon, you know, or, or if you can talk about it or if
38:02
you've figured it out yet. I can talk about it. I haven't figured it out. Um, I will say, um, you
38:09
know, I I've been burning the candle from both ends in a pretty extreme way for the last year
38:13
And so for the last week to be able to just focus on it and not spend, you know, I think a lot about
38:19
when it comes to writing and this sort of work is it does take time. Like it takes time to absorb
38:25
these stories. And when you're trying to do that on a, on a short schedule or spending the weekend
38:31
you know, it's so even in just one week in a focusing on this work has been so good for my
38:36
brain. I, there are a couple of things I'm sort of thinking about. I do want to talk to more young
38:42
people, whether that is like in a podcast form or like in some sort of like live video, like
38:47
something I also want to report on more stories Um and then in the vein of like the New York magazine Yeah Yeah I mean that was just it was so cool to talk to 20 tweens Like there just I just talked to tweens all day And I I also I kind of
39:03
exploring like this, maybe like a pro plus offering, whether it's like a trend report or
39:09
some sort of distillation of, um, you know, I'm writing the newsletter every day. Then there's
39:15
5,000 links in every weekend, you know, probably like a good, like a hundred links in every
39:21
weekend edition. And so what are the main things that a brand who is very busy may need to know
39:26
So, so yeah, I'm kicking around a couple of things, but I also for the first time ever in
39:32
or in a year, have time to like get coffee with people or like was able to join you on short
39:37
notice. So I'm really enjoying that. Yeah. Well, good. I'm glad to hear it. And, and look
39:41
to the extent that I can ever help, I've said this to you before, but to the extent that I can
39:45
ever help in terms of developing that, like, I really, I really want to, cause I think you're
39:49
So again, you represent something in the air, in the water that I think is important and
39:59
is going to move the whole environment forward in a significant way
40:03
So I want to contribute to that. And I think people who are smart and clued in see it as well and want to contribute to it
40:13
So take that forward. Thank you, Ben. That is so kind of you to say. No, it's my pleasure
40:17
Like I said, Casey, I'm a fan. And you also have done such a good job of opening your arms to, I think, the audience that you cover, the audience that you serve, and making yourself personally and intellectually available to them that I think they want to reciprocate
40:43
So there's a big lesson there, too, I think, for everybody. Well, thank you
40:47
Thank you so much, Ben. Appreciate you having me on. Like, I would love, yeah
40:52
I mean, yeah, I want to try it. Well, we're going to get you out to Breakfast Club at some point, some Wednesday morning
40:58
I'm going to drag you all the way to the other side of Williamsburg for that. Yeah. I'll see you next Wednesday
41:04
Okay, perfect. Good. You know, this is on the record now, Casey. If anybody watching this or listening to this, I'll see you next Wednesday
41:11
All right, perfect. So there's that. And then I, I, I, I, yeah, I don't know
41:18
I've got to, we've got to cut this one a little bit short. So I've got to bounce, but, but I don't know, Casey
41:22
It's just like, I, I, I really enjoy talking to you. And I, I more than that, enjoy hearing you go on about this stuff because you are a font
41:30
of knowledge, but not in a lecture way. And I, I think that's a quality that's really important
41:37
So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. All right, listen, we will talk again soon
41:41
I'll see you next Wednesday. And in the meantime, everybody, thank you for tuning in. We appreciate it
41:45
And if you don't already subscribe to After School, you are missing a trick
41:49
So you ought to do that immediately. Okay. All right, Casey. See you later
41:54
Bye
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