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Future of Cloud Computing - C# Corner MVP Show ft. Allen
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Nov 9, 2023
Join us on January 27 with Allen O'Neill on C# Corner MVP Show as we talk about future of cloud computing. ABSTRACT Cloud computing, which underpinned the world's economy, global supply chains and remote workforces during the coronavirus pandemic, will continue to be an essential target for organizations looking for increased scalability, business continuity and cost efficiency in 2021. In this live show we'll cover different challenges could providers had to face during the pandemic, what could be the next big at cloud computing and many more intersting topics.
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Hi everyone, welcome back to C Sharp Kondar Live Show. I'm your host Stephen Simon and
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we are back with another episode of C Sharp Kondar MVP Show and this episode of this show
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is going to be really interesting and I have very exciting guest joining us today. He is
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one of our very own and he has been to many of our offline events, conferences. Now he has been
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speaking in our virtual events. He is not only C-sharp on MVP, he's also the chief community
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advisor for our community. And not just that, he has been a Microsoft MVP and not just that
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he has also been a regional director and I like to call him Mr. Ari and to some people also Santa
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So let's go ahead and invite our guest of the show today, Alan O'Neill
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Hi, Alan. Welcome to the live show. It's me, Santa Claus, a.k.a. Alan, a.k.a. C-sharp corner MVP, a.k.a. gangster wearing my gangster hat
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You look cool in that outfit. Yeah. Well, this is actually, so I was asked what I wanted for a, is it straight
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yeah um you know you're on a tv and it's like you think you're adjusting it you do it in the
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wrong direction so um yeah so i was asked what i wanted for for christmas this year um you know
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a present from my better half and i decided i want this cap because it's um it's the cap with
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the emblem of the morgan car company so um yeah it's kind of cool so the um if i can get it up
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there and you can see it yeah so more yeah okay so i'll bring it up there a bit closer and we can
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focus focus gone there we go hold on there we go yeah right so it's the morgan car company
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um i aspire one day to only one of their cars um and uh because the cloud is going to bring us all
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this this uh magic okay so that's why i had that on um because it's so cool and i can go and i can
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spend time driving my fancy Morgan car. They're built by hand in the UK, so they're very awesome
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And the reason I'm wearing my glasses, right? It's not because I'm blind or there's too much sunshine
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It's because the future is so bright with clouds that I've got to wear my shades
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Oh, my goodness. So, you know, Alan, it's said that people who can crack jokes
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are bringing smiles to other face, right? they are very very unique people in the world and they're very less and you are one of them and
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definitely you are very unique every time you come you have that energy right you you bring that
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positivity with you it may be off anyway it may be uh in these online events but it is always so
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exciting to host you and yeah definitely the the future of cloud is really bright but before even
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we go ahead and start talking about you know alan the future of cloud let's take a step back and
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try to understand at the very first place that what is this cloud and it will be pretty interesting
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also to know on how did uh your journey started with this cloud computing sure so um uh really
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the when someone tells me what's what is the cloud right uh the simplest answer is
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it's somebody else's computer and that's that's true right because you know this this cloud thing um uh i got a book and also
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from my my very better better half thankfully to her um many years ago and it was called um
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uh the plumbing of the internet or internet pipes and um it was all about the um the big thick fat
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cables that went under the sea that brought the internet from you know the US to Europe and Europe
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to Asia and Asia to the rest of the world and everything else and it was like this hidden thing
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that nobody ever knew existed and there's special submarines that go and they lay these cables down
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and they measure them and make sure they're in good condition and fix them when they go wrong
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etc etc and and recently of course has become quite a national security issue for most nations
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in the world and to ensure that these big pipes that go into the sea that connect one country to
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the next are protected from terrorist attacks and all sorts of things because um uh it is the plumbing
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of the internet right so we say the internet and it consists of so many different parts we've got
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The cloud is other people's computers. So it is collections of computers that are put together on racks and these racks are put inside containers and containers are stacked one on top of the other and i not talking about docker or kubernetes containers i talking about physical shipping containers you know and um uh
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uh if you um go in and look up some of the um amazing stuff that's been done with some of the
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data centers at the moment uh microsoft for example um uh sean absolutely they're huge huge
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cables right huge not many people know about it i think that not many people know about it yeah
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yeah in fact maybe you know what we should do for the fun of it um simon we should actually do a show
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on the um uh the physical infrastructure of the internet right and i'd love to do that show and
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i'll tell you exactly how everything gets connected together and all of the magic that's underneath
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there right but here's the thing so we have um uh these uh a computer and the computer is stacked
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into a rack and we know this we can visualize this in our head um and then they're connected
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through um uh networks uh within the racks and then each rack is connected to another rack
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and then all of the racks are connected inside a container and then the containers are stacked
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literally physically big huge shipping containers on top of each other and then those are contained
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inside a huge big building which is called a data center and then there's these big massive pipes
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containing billions and billions of fiber optic cables that come out of those data centers
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and they then get connected under the sea to guess what? Other data centers, right
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So when you go in and you go to open up a website
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or to look at YouTube or to go to Bing and do a search or whatever it happens to be
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the data that's coming to you, like that's on somebody else's computer
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where it's coming from a server that could be the other side of the world
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or it could be data that originated on the other side of the world, and then is replicated to a server, let's say, in Delhi, close to you
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or maybe in my case, I'm only about 40 or 50 miles
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kilometers up the road from me, is actually the Microsoft data center for Europe West
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Is there Europe North? North Europe. so all of Europe is fed from a big data center just a few miles up the road from me which is
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kind of cool right so what is the cloud and why did it come to be what it is and at the end of
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the day what the cloud allows us to do is it allows us to only worry about code and our delivery of
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services and not to have to worry about managing the computers and the infrastructure that are
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required to serve all this stuff out. So when we go and we pay Azure a few dollars a month for our
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systems or AWS or Google or whatever, we're paying them literally to rent their computer space
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right? And all of the amazing services that they've built around this. So what is the cloud
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The cloud is somebody else's computer. It's services running on somebody else's computer that allows us to connect together all of the information and the services that we've built as a technical community of engineers and IT pros and everything else over the past couple of years
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Yeah. Yeah, so that very nicely explains, Alan, about what this cloud computing is starting from
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There are devices connected to each other. At the end of the day, everything is connected, right
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You have kind of computers that are stacked upon each other. But where does this cloud term fit
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Because I don't see you ever mentioned like the cloud thing, right? At the end of the day, you're talking about pipes going under the sea
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You're talking about continents connected to each other. But I don't see the concept of cloud
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How does that fit? So, politicians, right? You either love them or you hate them. I mostly hate them. I think most people mostly hate them
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The great Irish author and scholar, George Bernard Shaw, said that politics is the last bastion, the last place for a scoundrel to go
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so if you ever look at a politician you know that it's the last place for them to run
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is they've tried everything else and they fail so they say i'm going to be a politician a gangster
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in public so there was a politician in the west of ireland who like most politicians didn't know
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what he was talking about and um he heard some words some buzzword and he decided that he knew
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what this was so he decided to go and talk publicly about this and he said he raised a point
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in a local government committee meeting which was picked up by local media and then by national media
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and then by the world media and it was like he was made look like a fool the world over
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he said on the west coast of Ireland we have very turbulent weather and we have a lot of clouds
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So we should get a lot of investment into the West of Ireland for this cloud computing because we have a lot of clouds
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I can't believe that's true. It is actually true. It is actually true
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If you go there and you go into your Bing or to your Google and you type in Ireland politician, West of Ireland cloud computing, I guarantee you go there now and do it
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I guarantee you will find this reference. She's an idiot. So in any case, what is cloud computing? Why is it even called cloud computing? Because it's a thing that we don't even have to touch, right
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When I'm sitting here now, the last time we talked, I would have had a set of these on me, right? Look
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Yep. I don't have those now. I have these little up things here now, right
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They're not working good now. Yeah. They're not working good? Not the best, but it's okay
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Let's continue. Okay. All right. So in any case, so my voice and my audio is transferring just, you know, in the air, let's say, right, by Bluetooth
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What is Bluetooth? Bluetooth is just wireless. It's a form of wireless. So I'm in the house, and if I do this, right, my hand is moving through radio waves
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Yeah. so does that mean that actually when i say where is the internet well the internet is everywhere
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right it literally is so um do you have internet here hold on oh yes i feel it we have internet
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right so in actual fact when we say um cloud computing we mean that um our data our information
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our services they're up there the cloud isn't something that you can go and touch a physical
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cloud isn't something you can go and touch it's ethereal if you went up in an airplane and you
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reached out and you went to touch one of these fluffy clouds that looks like a candy floss that
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a kid eats, it's not like that. It's not like cheese on the moon. It's this ethereal thing
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It's just a gas that moves out of the way when you touch it. And information and data is exactly
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the same thing. So when we say cloud, we use the word cloud. That's what we mean. We mean it's this
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nebulous thing that up there that we can see it from afar but when we get up there we can really touch it right Okay So in other words it a representation of a collection of services and data and information
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that are available to us to pull down whenever we want, but they're not necessarily here
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and managed by us. there was a great song out years ago by a singer called
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Kate Bush and it was called Cloud Busting and the video for this song showed her
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running up this hill and that's part of the song is running up the hill and they were kind of shooting these guns at clouds
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and everything else but of course the clouds weren't going away they were just there and it's the same
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concept, it's that it's nothing more than a word that lets us know
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that it's this ethereal thing that we can see, we can imagine that stuff is up there
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but we can't actually touch it. In the same way as I went, if I went up in my car
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which I couldn't do because we have local restrictions on driving and travel. But if I could get in my car and go to the Microsoft Cloud Center
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they wouldn't let me in. Yeah, I was going to ask, would you let go there
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No, no, it's high security. I wouldn't be allowed in. So I can sort of see my stuff, but I can't touch my stuff
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So that's why it's called the cloud. It's because it's something that is there
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It's available. You can see it, but you can't necessarily touch it. But you can go and you can have rough weather
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You can knock your house down with a hurricane. You can take your laptop and you can smash it up
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But guess what? The cloud will always be there, right? Your data will always be up there in this nebulous place that you can just pull it down
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Yeah, so that's a good idea to understand the concept of cloud world behind this cloud computing
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And given the fact that, you know, Alan, cloud computing gives you the benefit of accessibility, scalability, and flexibility on the fly
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This might be a tricky question. Do you think we have gone back doing the same thing of giving, we had some warehouses earlier, right
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We had our onsite, then we had some warehouses. but we have kind of gone back same but given these resources to more powerful vendors like Microsoft, Google and IBM
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And we are doing the same thing. Did you ever feel so? Do you mean like, do we feel like we're going backwards
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Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, we are doing the same thing. It's just that we have given our data to some big vendors
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I mean, yes, they bring some good capabilities of AI, machine learning, better devices
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better, hardest, but isn't it that we are getting more dependent on these vendors
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Yes, we are. And that's quite interesting. And it also feeds very much into the topic of actually today's show
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which is the future of cloud, right? While every vendor would love you to go in and to write your application
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or your system so that it only uses their dedicated proprietary services, right
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An actual fact, more and more companies are using the technology of containers
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and Kubernetes to write their systems in a way that is what we would call
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cloud vendor agnostic. And this means that we can take the code that we write
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and we can say this goes into this package or this box over here
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and we now deploy it onto AWS and it'll run. And if we decide we want to change vendor in the morning
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well, then we can just press a few buttons and guess what? It'll deploy over here into Google or down here into AWS or into Azure
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So that by leveraging the newest technologies, like, for example, containerization
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we can make sure that our services are portable from vendor to vendor
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And actually, it's interesting because on one hand, you can say, well, doesn't it make us more dependent
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on these people? It does, but it also makes us actually much more independent
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because it also means that because of the way that we can now build our systems
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and the way we can distribute these systems across different vendors, it means that we can also lower the risk for the business
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So we're not saying all of our eggs are in that basket. I heard a really, really, I saw a really cool tweet
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about Fiverr Sweets weeks ago. Do you remember there one day for a couple of hours
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Google was down? Yeah, very recently. Yeah, huge, huge, big outage. And this guy sent a tweet and he said, my central heating wouldn't work
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My air con wouldn't work. The lights wouldn't come on in my house
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And I am now reevaluating why I have Google IOT Nest controlling my entire system in my house
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And it was right because basically some glitch happened. Google's infrastructure went down
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and everybody who were locked into one vendor were like gotten serious trouble, right
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However, if you had set up your system and distributed it across multiple vendors
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you wouldn't have experienced that problem or at the very least, you would have reduced your risk dramatically
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of being affected by that problem. So while on one hand, you can say, absolutely
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it seems like a bad thing that we're reduced down to all these vendors. It's also a good thing
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because it creates more competition in the marketplace. And I think that if we as engineers and architects and technologists
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do our job correctly, we'll make sure that we do balance that load
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and we're not dropping everything into one place and we're reducing that risk
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So I think it's probably a good thing. Yeah, more lean towards a good thing
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So Alan, we have seen in past 10 months
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almost like entire 2020 we have seen uh that infrastructure id infrastructure plate has
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played a very vital role because we all have gone virtual we have started doing our meetings virtual
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and uh the three three cloud service provider there's aws azure and google cloud they have
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always emerged as the best so do you think going forward since we have gone so much of virtual
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that creates an opportunity to go ahead and reshuffle these top three players will that
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make sense going forward in the coming years? So I think that we will probably remain with
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a number of core vendors. One of the problems, and we've seen it with Google and Facebook
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and Microsoft and others over the years, is that whenever somebody emerges that's a challenger
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to one of these people, they usually do one of two things
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They say either, A, how can we destroy it? Or number two, let's buy it
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and then close it down so that it no longer competition And Facebook actually are now entering into very severe litigation in the US
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antitrust laws, because of this type of thing. And it's one of the things they feared the most
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is that they'd be broken up because of the way that they act. And I think that now that we see a new administration coming in in the States
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there's probably less of a danger of this happening at least for the next sort of
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six or seven years depending on how the administration lasts because let's face it
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at the end of the day the direction of the internet outside China
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because that's different but the direction of the internet and the rest of the world
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is very heavily dependent on what happens politically in the states so I believe that
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yes, we have three or four incredibly strong vendors. We have other ones we don't necessarily talk about
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or hear about. OVH in Europe is one big one. There's a number of other very big private
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digital warehouse, data warehouse people that do very specific things, like they focus on media transmission, et cetera
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And you don't generally hear about these too much because they don't upset the apple cart
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But when they start to upset the apple cart, well, then you see them getting bought over
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So it's an interesting time. I would hope that with the new regime that we have in the States, that it would at least stabilize some of this for the coming years
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Yeah, definitely. i think apart from what you said uh you i don't know i think you must have heard about
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adibaba too like these are the other companies that are just coming into right they've started
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expanding so when we talk about the future of cloud computing alan we cannot ignore the the
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other technologies that that are uh people are really focusing on that the first one is ai and
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the second one is serverless we're going to talk about serverless later on but let's focus on on
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the ai you know so now ai projects have this dynamic change in code models data and they all
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needs to be improved and for that we need a good infrastructure if you don't have a good infrastructure
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we will not be able to go beyond proof of concepts or just prototype right so how do you see cloud
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computing uh giving a platform uh to ai to move to go ahead and become a reality so um two things
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I always say this, and I will keep on repeating it because it's important, right
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What's the difference between AI and machine learning? AI is written in PowerPoint
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Machine learning is written in Python. Okay? So that's the first thing
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In other words, let's not get confused. The robots are not going to take over the world in the morning, so we don't have to worry about that, right
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This is about machine learning. machine learning has a slightly different approach to getting the job done than standard programming, historical programming
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Historical programming is imperative in that we say we want you to go and do this
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One, two, three, four. And it goes and carries out those steps and it produces the end point
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Whereas with machine learning, we say, here's the data, how it looks like now
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And here's the data, how it looks like when the job is finished. Figure out how to transfer between those two
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figure out how to get from one point to the other um and there's all sorts of fancy um machine
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learning algorithms and they're going and do this stuff but that's what they are they're just
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algorithms right and what's an algorithm an algorithm is nothing more than if then else
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never forget that okay it is nothing more than if then else and sure you've got neural networks
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that guess what a neural network is it's a combination of if then else that's all it is
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Right. So so long as we keep that on the top of our head, it's nothing to be afraid of
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Now, how can we go and use these things to help us get to the next level
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Well, for example, if we think about different areas that machine learning is being put into play
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one of them is in the cloud, whereby we're saying, how can we allow machine learning to help us in the cloud
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How can we allow it to help our services be smarter? Well, how about if we put some machine learning together, a bit of an algorithm, and what it
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would do is it would monitor, let's say, the incoming IPs for people who are connecting
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into the C-sharp corner website. And it would monitor maybe the frequency of them coming in
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It would monitor the geolocation of those IPs. And if it noticed a particular pattern, it might say, hold on
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those requests coming in from those IPs look like they're coming from Europe, but Europe is actually asleep at the moment, right? Because we're six hours ahead or
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whatever, and it's only 9am in the morning. So it actually looks like that's probably a denial of
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service attack, right? So we can go and we can go and do whatever action we take to help mitigate
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a denial of service attack. We might say, oh, again, we have a queue system, let's say, right
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And this is a classic example of where AI is, our machine learning is being used right now in the cloud to help us do things better and smarter
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So it's typical that if we have a lot of work to do, we have this work put into jobs and those jobs are in a queue system
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So we have a big queue system and we have these workers that basically drink from this queue, this pool, and they go to do the work and then they move it on to the next section, et cetera, et cetera
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But how do we know when the backlog of all of this work is starting to actually get too much
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and there's going to be a pressure point, right? Well, what we can do is we can use a technique, a technology rather, called KEDA, K-E-D-A
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And it's a Microsoft technology that uses some ML at its core. And what it does is it will monitor a pool or a queue, a pipeline of work
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And using various metrics, it will be able to predict if that pipeline is about to grow exponentially, if there is sufficient workers to drink from the pool and make sure you keep your SLAs, et cetera
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And that's one example of, and what happens then is, and it gets connected then via an API to your workers
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so that your system can ensure that it meets an SLA. It's SLA, it's service level agreement
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Because the last thing you want is for a customer to ring you and say, hey, I was meant to have my data delivered
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at 9 a.m. this morning and it's already 10 a.m. and it looks like you're not going to deliver until 10 p.m. tonight
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Why is that? Oh, because we've got too much work in our system
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and we haven't deployed enough workers and a programmer has got to go out and he's got to go and redo something really fast
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on the AWS or the Azure dashboard or whatever to spin up another 10 servers
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And no, you can build in very simple machine learning using cloud-native tools to monitor these types of workloads
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and to make decisions for you and to say, if the backlog looks like it's hitting
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a certain threshold, spin up these machines. And this is how things like you mentioned there just a few minutes ago, serverless
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This is the type of technology that is at the core of how serverless works
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To know when can we take something and put it to sleep
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How do we know when it's likely that that particular job is going to need compute resources
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How do we know when it's going to explode at the time of the day? because of certain services
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For example, I can tell you, and it's probably the same in Delhi as it is here in Dublin
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that at 6 p.m. there's always an electricity spike. It's because everyone sits down to make a cup of tea
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So everybody turns on the electric kettle, right? So there's a power surge
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And the power stations have to plan for this, right? And they use machine learning algorithms the same as everybody else
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I mean, you'll find it funny, but it's true. One of the things that I know that the standard machine learning algorithms for power plants do, but they take into account, they don't just take into account things like, you know, time of day, right
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6 p.m., everybody's coming home, they're going to make a cup of tea, right? They even do things like they monitor TV listings
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Why? Yeah, true story, right? Power operators monitor TV listings. They do it algorithmically, right
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But what they do is they say, well, watch a particular show
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And if we see a particular show gain in traction, well, then we need to be sure that we plan for the time
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that it's going to be coming on because more people are going to be sitting down turning on their TVs, and therefore more power is going to be consumed
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Must have happened with Game of Thrones. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah
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You know? And this is where having machine learning natively embedded into the very core of operations
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in the cloud helps us to scale these things. Because if we didn't have machine learning, can you imagine the volume of people who would
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need to work these things out? Like, who would think, oh, I need to go and look at the TV listings to monitor if a particular TV show is taking off so I can plan the power consumption for the country, for the entire nation, right
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Yeah. Two months ahead and two years ahead, et cetera, et cetera. That's what they do, you know
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The same thing with – we might look at the, let's say, an election, right
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And we'd say, well, there's going to be an election count. Well, what generally happens immediately around the counting time of the election
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Well, we see a lot of people sending messages, right? So depending on the outcome of the election, we might see more people sending messages or less people sending messages
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So who needs to know about this type of thing? Well, people like telecommunications providers so that they can ensure that they have enough systems up and running to take the capacity of all of these messages flowing through
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Excuse me. It's not COVID. In addition, the data centers, right? The data centers also use this type of thing to be able to monitor power consumption, because if they notice that, let's say, for example, we have some event, I don't know, in the UK, maybe they have the Queen's Speech, right
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So millions of people tune in for the Queen's Speech. Well, they're going to see an upsurge
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Will you see an upsurge in TV watching? yeah but actually you'll see an upsurge in um people watching video on their phone as well
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so you know it affects everybody so having machine learning right in at the core of your operations
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allows you to help predict um what's going to happen in your system and allows you to react to
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in an intelligent way so um uh in the recent past we've seen machine learning used very heavily of
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course, in the management of data centers and cloud services themselves. But now what we're seeing more and more is we're now seeing organizations and companies
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saying to themselves, how can we use this machine learning now within our applications
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How can we use this to help us do small things that will have big benefits for our customers
35:18
to save us time, save us money, lower risk, improve margins, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera
35:24
So I'm going to drink some water when you react to the next question
35:28
Yeah. So when you say that now organizations are looking to go ahead and add AI capabilities
35:36
into their existing application, one of the benefits that also Cloud provides
35:40
is the cognitive services on the fly. You need not be a data scientist
35:44
You can go ahead, create an API, create an endpoint, just go ahead and start leveraging it it may be a computer vision it may be natural language
35:51
processing it may be speech to text this can be anything so maybe that is where also cloud really
35:56
helps now alan when when cloud provides so much of opportunities it takes so much of uh labor from
36:04
from from the from the you know people don't have to work so much so do you think uh this kind of
36:10
replaces or displaces the jobs especially talking about the uh it pros because if i talk with respect
36:16
to database architectures, the more we move towards PaaS, their role decreases
36:22
because we're now more dependent upon the Azure. So do you think this is kind of affecting people's job
36:31
Clearly it does, right? How's my voice, by the way? Because I've changed my mic
36:37
That's much better, to be honest. I still have the voice coming in through my ear
36:41
but I have the mic coming out through my other mic. Yeah. Technology
36:45
Woo! it's great it works so here's the thing um uh years ago um we had uh offices where um we needed
37:03
an it pro to come in and to set up our machine and to um make sure it was patched and up to date
37:09
and we still have that right we still have those folk who deal with the physical machines
37:14
But it's interesting because a lot of those folks now have moved beyond the simple act
37:24
of maintaining the local machines and they now moving more into the ops side of the DevOps thing right You also hear about things called SRE which is Site Reliability Engineer That crosses over
37:41
between a kind of a developer and an IT pro type person who knows a lot about the
37:48
infrastructure side of things, but also knows about the development side of things
37:53
and you have then, for example, your DBAs, your database administrators, who aren't developers
38:04
but yet they still have to take care of the data. And whereas previously, they might have gone into a room
38:09
where there was all sorts of servers and they had their in-house blinky box room
38:15
Now instead, they do it with a dashboard and the dashboard talks to somebody else's computer
38:20
which is the cloud. So I think that what we have is not so much as a replacement of jobs, but a shifting of focus for those jobs
38:33
So I think that somebody who, let's say, up to five years ago, their job was running around in a building and making sure things were connected and making sure that the 20 or 30 servers that they had in the back room were running and checking them for disk failures and all that kind of stuff
38:54
They're still doing a lot of the same thing, but now it's on remote machines. because despite the fact that we have this wonderful thing called the cloud
39:03
we still have a huge volume, a tremendous volume of existing code and applications
39:13
that don't run on the cloud. Right? Yeah. Run on the cloud
39:18
Right? So, you know, those are always going to be there. Now, another thing that we have is we have those particular systems
39:25
and people have done what's called lift and shift to move those up into the cloud
39:31
But despite the fact that they're on the cloud, they still need to be managed
39:36
because they're just being put up there into virtual servers. So instead of having one physical box over here that has, you know, 40, 50 Windows services running on it
39:50
with a DB and whatever, and it's only, let's say, fully utilizing maybe 40, 50% of its actual
39:59
capacity, sitting as a virtual box on top of a much bigger machine, and it's much more efficient
40:08
and therefore the total cost of ownership for the company is lower, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera
40:12
But the bottom line is, is that the service inside it still needs to be managed, and that service is
40:19
still managed by the IT pro so um yes there is a a shifting in the type of work that is being done
40:28
and I don't believe there is displacement an actual fact um it has been shown um time and time
40:35
again that um the cloud as a thing right or as a an industry or whatever the cloud and has generated
40:43
more jobs than it has displaced and that will continue to be the case and again it's the same
40:49
with you know as ai comes in and it will generate more jobs than it displaced that's absolutely
40:56
guaranteed and the jobs that it will generate will be um uh either a ones that simply cannot
41:04
be done by learning an ai um or ones that humans are are simply better at inherently you know um
41:13
Like how many people 50 years ago were employed in the industry surrounding and related to, let's say, horses and horses and transport
41:35
Even 50 years ago, we were still using horse-drawn carriages on the street
41:41
right now it would be quite unusual to see a horse car drawn car you know better
41:45
I mean I actually saw some yesterday when I was out driving my car and I was stuck behind the
41:52
and I was giving out going get off the road but uh you know if you think about that particular thing I mean you had the horse well you had somebody who had to stable you got a stable hand you have somebody who's going to make the horse shoes
42:08
you've got the um uh person who made the carriage you got the carriage maker um you've got the
42:15
wheelwright who made because it's a particular skill in making wheels and that gets in somebody
42:20
who knows how to do spindling and you know everything else and it's the wood makers and
42:23
and then of course it's the feed that has to be brought for the horse and everything else
42:27
so are those jobs gone now yeah they are but they're displaced by something else you know so
42:32
while those trades and those crafts may fade away, it doesn't mean that that's a work that's gone forever
42:42
It's just displaced to something else, you know, in the same way as when we had to go off years ago
42:53
and, you know, put together a database. Well, as an engineer, you had to know a lot about databases
42:59
and tuning and your code and all these different things. you don't really have to know that now, right
43:05
You can just go in and just say, well, Jason, put it into Mongo. I don't care, right
43:09
Yeah. And you don't have to worry about relational stuff and da-da-da-da
43:13
in most cases. So, like, are we out of a job? No, we're just doing something else
43:19
I think that, like a lot of these things, yes, there is a shifting of job types
43:27
but it's been proven time and time again that the cloud is generating more jobs
43:33
than it's actually displacing overall at the end of the day. And just having the ability to have the cloud there
43:39
to share and to spread knowledge is the singular most important thing
43:45
to be able to move mankind forward. You look at the show Starter that comes out every time
43:53
where we talk about C Sharp Corner and how it started out as a seed and then it grew and everything else
43:57
and I said to um uh my partner the other day um I said would you believe it C-sharp is actually
44:05
you know it's in the top sort of you know two two and a half thousand um of websites on the
44:11
internet and she went is that all I said can you imagine how well that is can you imagine how
44:19
incredible that is to be in the top two and a half thousand sites of the internet like it's
44:23
unheard of right like you know um for a something that started off just as a side project by Mahesh
44:31
in his bedroom to turn into impacting so many lives on a daily basis um I was looking at some
44:38
of my stats the other day because you get a little bit obsessed by statistics when you start sharing
44:43
right and um uh even though um I haven't written a physical article um I used to be quite prolific
44:52
in writing articles but at the moment because of my um startup that i in i all of my time is consumed with that right um uh But I would shove out articles and shove out one or two a week and write and write and write
45:06
And it was really cool because people would see those. And even though I haven't written a new article in about six or seven months
45:13
I went and had a look at my stats on C Sharp Corner through the day. And despite the fact that I haven't written a new article, right, in over six months
45:23
I have gained another half a million views on my existing articles right that's half a million
45:31
people who have gone to c-sharp corner who are still getting benefit from stuff that I've written
45:36
six months ago six years ago 16 years ago right and that's so awesome um uh that that knowledge
45:44
is shared and this is the thing about the cloud um the cloud is about being able to um share
45:51
knowledge and share information and it's the only way that humanity will continue to to push forward
45:57
and to make sure that we we do it for good of course you know and so next question go
46:02
so uh that that's a beautifully answered allen uh definitely uh not just on c-sharp corner i think
46:10
some people have invested a lot of time on their youtube right they just go in and upload one video
46:16
if it's monetized that that video is going to give you uh money all time right so even that's people
46:23
have done it nicely um uh and quick update that the shahpunar now runs entirely on azure we were
46:29
down last month for a couple of days i don't know it was all over the internet but we are now running
46:36
entirely on azure so yeah you have to keep yourself updated we were first on on site uh then then we
46:42
started using some other services then we went on multi-cloud then we realized that okay let's just
46:47
go ahead and stick to azure because that's working best for uh so i know we are a little over time
46:53
alan right and your time is very sensitive so i'll just take ask you one last question maybe like
46:58
second last question uh that what does this actually mean how does a digital twins fit into
47:03
the cloud what what the heck is this digital twins okay let me just go ahead and put it on
47:12
screen so that everyone can fit and see it so even there you can see everyone's like what is that
47:17
digital twins okay so you think like it's going to be like these cyborgs you know these robots
47:27
going around um twin a and twin b robot a and robot b um a digital twin is a representation
47:38
of something that is in the physical world but it is replicated in the digital world
47:45
now um practically um i'm going to give you a real practical example let's say i have a building
47:55
and it's my office building. In fact, let's say it's not an office building, right
48:02
Here's an interesting one. Let's say, in fact, okay. No, it is an office building, right
48:07
I have an office building and it has maybe five or six floors, okay
48:13
So it's actually not unlike the C Sharp Corner office in Delhi, right
48:21
And I know that office well and how we walk up the outside steps
48:26
and then we have the different floors and the different sections in the rooms and everything else. We have one area that we can teach people
48:30
and another area for operations. And I really like the table that we have
48:36
that has all those pebbles in it. We sit around and we have some nice coffee and chai. Yeah, it's still there
48:41
Yeah. So we have all these areas, right? And maybe we want to know
48:52
how is the health of this building? Because now everybody's working from home
49:01
and there's only somebody going into the office maybe once a week just to check for post or whatever
49:08
But what happens if something goes wrong when you're not there? Let's say there's a flood
49:13
So we've got some monsoon and there's a hole in the corner of a window
49:19
that somebody forgot to close and water starts coming in and then the hinge gets rusty and it breaks open
49:25
So the window now completely falls open. And that's beside maybe the server room because you still have a server room
49:33
And maybe the water starts coming in and suddenly you're in trouble, right
49:39
So the first thing we have is we have IoT sensors, right
49:43
So we've got sensors around the building and those sensors collect data
49:47
and the data is sent up and we have some monitoring system that says make sure that you check for
49:57
a leak or whatever it happens to be and to fix that thing. And the second thing then that we have
50:05
is we have a representation of that. And the representation of the building is not one that
50:16
necessarily takes in the live data but one that says um i'm a bit like cad drawing of this building
50:23
um and you can look at the building like in you know this um uh what's it called um
50:31
augmented reality like so you can do this walk around the building in 3d and um you can see where
50:39
all of the the sensors are and you can pose a question to the system so you can say what would
50:46
happened if that particular window over there started breaking and let in water and you could
50:54
run a query on it right and it would show oh well if that area there filled up and the pressure on
51:01
that particular part of the floor would cause the floor to cave in which is because it's on floor
51:07
three it's actually the ceiling of the floor of floor two so that would cause a sensor underneath
51:13
there to realize that something was after breaking and then the next thing. So a digital twin is a
51:21
representation of something that's in the real world, in the digital world, and it allows you to
51:28
model things that might happen and model things in advance. You might be able to say, for example
51:35
if the external heat went to a certain degree to a certain temperature outside the building
51:43
what is the efficiency of the air conditioners inside to allow us to keep that building cool
51:50
so you might find out that actually and if you if the external went up by an extra half a degree
51:58
that actually your air conditioners are not efficient enough right and you could then use
52:05
a digital twin and we have digital twins for cities right this one is really really cool
52:09
and i'm involved in a a a project at the moment um uh they're building um a brand new city in
52:19
morocco um and we getting involved in this project um and for example uh let say you got all of these streets okay um and you have all of the traffic lights on all of the street corners And you have pedestrian zones And you want to know what the flow of the traffic
52:38
So we have the sensors on the traffic lights. We have sensors in the ground underneath the traffic light
52:47
so that you can see how long has a car been sitting there waiting
52:51
And then you can change the traffic lights depending on this. okay. It's in this physical world. It happens all the time. So let's take that as a model and put it
53:01
inside in our digital twin, our model of the physical world, and say, what else can we put
53:07
on top of that now? Okay. So why don't we put in the weather, right? So let's overlay the weather
53:14
into this. So we now are putting digital weather into our digital world, right? And we can track
53:21
that the weather is a particular type and we can say well there's actually monsoons at the moment
53:25
and it is um very very wet and we know that cars tend to go slightly slower when it's wet and
53:33
because people are more afraid and more nervous and but we also know that there's more accidents
53:37
with people back ending into cars right when it's wet and so we can then run some machine learning
53:44
experiments on the digital twin to say, if we adjusted the timing of the traffic lights for
53:54
the traffic flow, taking into account the weather, the traction, people's reactions in their cars
54:02
could we actually lower the amount of accidents on the road? Okay. Could we do it by maybe
54:08
allowing one traffic light up that area to go to green even five seconds before the one on this
54:15
area will that create enough of a movement that will that will reduce the amount of accidents we
54:21
can do that then we can go one step further and we can say um actually just around the corner
54:27
there is a market and around that corner half a kilometer away there's also a stadium where
54:34
there's going to be some concert on, right? So could we actually go out and could we put up some monitors
54:44
and could we look at the amount of Wi-Fi, right? Like if I go and I put up even three Wi-Fi hubs, right
55:01
within a few hundred meter radius. I can count the number of unique phones in the area
55:08
without them ever knowing I'm doing it, right, by triangulation, because they will automatically try and seek out a network, right
55:15
So I can use that to help me understand in real time
55:21
if there's a surge of people coming into a particular area. I can know that the likelihood of more people on the streets
55:30
with more cars means that there's probably going to be more accidents. Therefore, I should slow
55:36
down the traffic lights, or I should speed up the cars, or whatever happens to be. So the key of
55:42
digital twins is that it allows us to have this representation in a digital world of what's
55:47
happening physically, and to run experiments to make sure that we optimize the physical world
55:53
now I know we're going to have a show about that um uh at a later stage um but uh even before that
56:02
it's an absolutely fascinating area um I've got an ogy that I won't talk about now but
56:08
um I will just suffice to let you know um we're going to talk about vacuum cleaners
56:13
why is that I'm not going to tell you you're going to have to tune in to the next show that
56:19
I have digital twins. And I will tell you all about vacuum cleaners and digital twins
56:24
Okay. Wow. That sounds amazing. And what the connection is between. And I'll also tell you about frogs
56:28
Frogs and vacuum cleaners, digital twins in the cloud. Coming to a show near you next time
56:33
Tune in. Same panel, same time. So I think that that was really nice
56:40
So if it makes sense, can we say that IoT plays a big role in this digital twin
56:46
Can we say that? Absolutely. Absolutely. IoT has a huge role in digital twins, and sensors have a huge role in digital twins
56:57
Digital twin is something that is really starting now to take traction and to grow
57:03
And what we're going to see sooner rather than later is we will see the digital twin concept
57:15
becoming as ubiquitous as the mobile phone. So when people talk about the mobile phone now, like I remember she killed me now, but my better half many years ago when we showed her the first iPhone, she said, why would anybody need the Internet on their phone
57:34
why would anybody need the internet on their phone right and i guarantee you um within
57:42
probably five to seven years um everybody will assume that we have smart buildings everybody
57:50
will assume that we have um smart items we'll assume that when we pick up our headphone
57:56
and it will automatically connect with something we'll be able to see where it is be able to say
58:01
where's my where's my headphone and i just pick up my phone and say it's 200 meters that way
58:05
right um where's my car what's the efficiency of my car this week everything will be connected in
58:12
with a digital twin right um we will have um uh sensors we have our our fitbits which have been
58:19
taken over by google um which will be part of the digital twin the human digital twin
58:24
We have our glasses that we wear that we'll be able to have our, we've already seen them with the micro cameras bringing everything in for augmented reality
58:35
We have the incredible technology that we see with mixed reality with the Microsoft HoloLens
58:44
And this is very much fitted in with digital twins, especially when you look at industry
58:52
you talk about factories you talk about technicians you talk about plumbers electricians
58:57
even down to a dentist who's in you know doing something in your mouth and they need some
59:04
assistance well what can they do what about if they had a hollow lens on and they're looking in
59:09
and they're able to send a digital representation live over the internet to some specialist they
59:13
will say don't touch that tooth it's gonna bop if that happens you know i'm not going to that
59:20
dentist to be honest if my dentist is putting on a HoloLens yeah yeah then it's time to run
59:26
or maybe that's the dentist you want to stay with because if you go down next door and you're going
59:33
to go into the AWS robotics lab and they'll have a robot hand coming into your mouth
59:37
so who do you want Microsoft Microsoft HoloLens or Bezos in your beak Bezos in your beak Bezos in
59:46
your beak. Yeah. Let's let's let's stay at home for now. Let's do two times a brush a day
59:51
And so guys, we're already at time. The show was only for 30 minutes, but I think we have two episodes
59:59
one day what an amazing show alan and towards the end when you bring the topic of digital twin that
1:00:04
definitely tells that that is the big future that we're not looking not just for the cloud computing
1:00:09
but i think digital twins covers the entire ecosystem of cloud computing data science machine
1:00:14
learning iot and a lot of stuff pretty exciting thing to talk about today uh starting from what
1:00:18
is cloud what are the challenges what we have achieved so far what can be done and what's the
1:00:23
future so uh alan that was a great show thank you so much for tuning in any last words before we go
1:00:29
go ahead and close the show. No, again, as always, to me, the most important thing
1:00:34
is to spread the word, to say to people, share your knowledge, tell everybody what you do
1:00:38
help others. It's the only way we can move forward, especially now that we have this
1:00:42
very, very strange time on us. It falls down on us even more
1:00:49
to help everyone around us. It doesn't matter whether it's in computers, if there's an old person living nearby
1:00:54
go and help them, bring their groceries out, bring their dog for a walk, you know, go and chat to them
1:00:58
talk to them, right? people are lonely so reach out and communicate keep communicating that's the message keep
1:01:03
communicating yeah exactly keep communicating keep doing the live shows we'll keep on doing
1:01:08
live shows every other day because uh definitely this cloud has given job to me too so that's also
1:01:15
important so thank you so much everyone who has joined us today see you in the next episode and
1:01:19
definitely see you on the sequel conference scheduled on friday where we raise funds for
1:01:23
kids affected by covid19 and as always stay connected and empower every other guy so thank
1:01:28
you so much. Take care. Bye-bye
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