0:00
Well, the last time Israel faced fanaticism was in the Second World War
0:07
And that came, as it happened, that came from Germany, middle of Europe
0:14
But we, the rest of us, we had to knock it on the head
0:19
And we did. Unimaginable suffering for the Jews and Israel. But we had to stop it because it was a sickness, a scourge
0:31
Now that now is happening in the Muslim world. It's fanaticism. And we should be supporting, I hope we are, supporting Israel all the way
0:43
It's got to be stopped. And so has Putin got to be stopped in Ukraine
0:48
And the fanaticism, Alf, is of the Iranian leadership in repeatedly and openly saying we want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and also falling foul of obligations it signed up to when it came to nuclear proliferation
1:06
All of that is fanaticism. Come on, it's got to be stopped. It's got to be stopped now
1:11
And the deaths, hang on a sec, Alf, the deaths of 70, we think, 78 people in Iran
1:16
Of course, not all of them are going to be connected with the leadership. There will be civilians in that too. I'm sorry, I didn't get that
1:23
You're speaking a bit fast. I'm sorry. The deaths of 78 people, not all of them clearly connected with the Iranian regime
1:31
Some of them will be civilians. Is that justified in ending the fanaticism
1:35
Absolutely. Anything, anything. They've got to be stopped, mate. I don't think anything, mate, is going to be justified. Not anything. But you're right. I mean, this is an Iranian leadership that has said without dispute and regularly that it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and is getting closer because they fell foul of their obligations. Only yesterday that was reported about nuclear proliferation
2:04
Kamal is in Harrow. Hi, Kamal. Yeah, hi. I think it's Israel that has to be stopped. Israel has consistently..
2:12
Well, leave that to the Iranian regime. They want to do it
2:16
Well, let's have a little bit of background here, OK? Obviously, the world is watching, the Muslim world is watching, that Israel is able to act with impunity when it comes to Gaza and West Bank
2:32
They have killed hundreds of thousands of children, civilians. They've invaded Lebanon
2:39
They have bombed Lebanon. They have, in the past, they also bombed a fight in Iraq 20 years ago and also Syria
2:48
And now they want to mess with Iran. I think it's time that somebody actually did something about it
2:59
And we need more than just words to deal with that. Let me start by saying this
3:04
I do not like war I do not like war No I don think anyone likes war Well from the Indian subcontinent So obviously my family had to flee from India to move to Pakistan I do not like war But at the same time when you have a government at the moment
3:19
the Israeli far right, like Smothrich and Netanyahu, they do not want peace in the region
3:26
And when a sovereign nation is attacked, they have every right to defend themselves
3:37
Yes, I think that's reasonable. With whatever they have. In the same way, Kamal, that Israel would say
3:41
it has been attacked on numerous occasions by the proxies of the Iranian state and by Iran itself
3:47
by a nation state, Iran, who have fallen foul of the obligations that it signed up to
3:53
when it came to nuclear proliferation, the same state whose leaders have regularly called on
3:58
the annihilation of Israel. Iran has never used nuclear weapons and as far as I'm aware
4:05
Well it doesn't have one yet but it's aiming to get one Yeah it's aiming to get one
4:11
they should have one You want Iran to have a nuclear weapon
4:14
In fact sorry I take that back I would say both Iran and Israel should agree
4:22
to get rid of their nuclear weapons Well that would be ideal and then the whole world could join them
4:26
that would be great a denuclearising world fantastic Yes, absolutely. The reality is that isn't going to happen
4:32
So in order to stop Iran getting a nuclear weapon, do you think Israel is right
4:37
given that they aren't doing it themselves, the Iranians, because they've fallen foul of it? What response should Israel have done
4:44
in order to stop Iran getting a nuclear weapon? If they're so worried about Iran getting a nuclear weapon
4:53
then they need to look at what they're doing, and they need to look at what they're doing
4:59
in Gaza and the West Bank, because that has an impact in the Muslim world
5:03
So if Israel said... That has an impact in the Muslim world. Yeah, but Kamal, even before these events in Gaza started happening
5:10
the Iranians had always been saying, we want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. This isn't a new thing from the Iranians
5:16
I know that, but... So, come back to it. So there's the Israeli government saying
5:21
well, in order to stop the threat of nuclear weapons coming from Iran
5:25
where they are very, very close to doing it, having shown that they've fallen foul of their obligations
5:28
to not do it, we're going to... I think, honestly, the solution with this lies with Israel
5:42
It's in Israel's hands. Israel should stop the genocide, and if they stop the genocide and have one state
5:49
where Jews and Muslims and Christians have lived together like they have done for thousands of years
5:54
then there will not be this problem. Kamal? Yes. I don't know that we can..
6:01
Two things can be true at the same time. You can think that it is absolutely appalling
6:05
what is happening in Gaza and that Israel needs to stop and that its offences need to end
6:10
and that the aid needs to be distributed. You can think all that and still think I believe that it right that Israel takes military means to go and stop the Iranians who want them wiped off the face of the earth from procuring a nuclear weapon
6:26
But if you look at it this way, there are many Muslim countries that our world is watching
6:31
and the Muslim world is watching, and they're seeing that in... And Jordan and Saudi Arabia shot down Iranian drones
6:39
on behalf of the Israelis last night. I'm aware of that. So is that good or bad
6:45
in your worldview. Is that a good thing or a bad thing
6:51
Obviously, if drones are flying in their own international territory, then of course they are within their right to take action
7:00
All right. Kamal, appreciate the call. I think Israel's just further destabilising the whole region
7:06
And then it's making itself more of a target. Israel's making itself more of a target by taking out
7:13
the capabilities of the state that's targeting it to target it? No, not just targeting them, but the whole pre-emptive strike
7:24
Because it opens them up to the argument now that you've attacked a sovereign nation which now has the right to self-defense
7:30
Yeah, and it does. And it's exercised that, right, by sending over 100 drones or so
7:37
none of which, I think, got through. I know but it is literally open the door now for Iran to continue and if anything give them the
7:46
excuse and even the moral high ground now where they can say we were attacked first whereas before
7:51
we were just making threats whereas now Israel has attacked our land okay so what if we were to
7:58
work that through um the threat being ballistic missiles and possibly nuclear weapons what is
8:04
israel meant to do is it at what how close to midnight how close to total destruction should
8:09
israel get before it takes action to stop that from happening i honestly believe israel has the
8:21
intelligence and the capabilities to not only defend itself but to even prevent it without
8:27
having to launch uh missiles into iran uh how the same way it just shoots the nuclear weapon out of
8:33
the sky or no i believe is israel was genuinely under attack or under uh serious threat they would
8:42
have shown evidence of it but they've shown akram there's been evidence of it they this isn't an
8:47
israeli assessment um the international observer of nuclear proliferation said that iran had fallen
8:53
foul of its agreements on nuclear proliferation because it had enriched uranium to uranium to
8:58
levels that it promised it wouldn't do. No, I understand, but that isn't a direct threat to Israel
9:04
itself. Well, it is when the people doing the enriching said, we want to build
9:08
a nuclear weapon to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. I understand, but again, it's
9:14
threat. Same way, it's not real. We want to wipe the United
9:18
States off the face of the earth. Yes. So I come back to the point. How close do Israel
9:22
need to get to obliteration before they can take action Again I think that the wrong way to phrase the question What the right way The right way
9:36
I'd say there's other avenues that can be explored first. Which is? Diplomacy
9:46
Oh, he's gone. Now, listen. On my children's life, and I mean this really, really seriously
9:53
on my children's life. I did not end that call. I pulled his fader down
9:58
I cut him off. He just went. I've been listening to some of your list
10:03
of people who called Kamal and the person after that. To be honest with you
10:08
as an Iranian, most of us are opposed and against what Iranian government
10:14
are doing in the region. And that's something we are ashamed of
10:19
And it's not something that we enjoy. We're not proud at all
10:23
we can see other neighbours Pakistan and other Muslim countries are so proud of what
10:31
Iran is doing but we are not they probably are in love with what
10:35
Iranian government is doing but we are not and what I can't understand
10:39
some of the callers say if Israel stop attacking Gaza, Iran wouldn't do
10:45
all these things, it's got nothing to do with Iran, it's between Israel
10:49
and Gaza why Iranian government is getting involved It's because they are all Muslim
10:55
Is that the reason? Well, Hamas are in part funded by Iran
10:59
Yes, that's correct. So to that extent, there is Iranian involvement. You know, they are..
11:04
Yes, but if you want to look at it in a different way
11:10
it's not a war between Iran and Israel. It's a war between Iran and Hamas
11:16
So Iran shouldn't get involved. But because Iran is doing all the activities in the region
11:23
And all the terrorist activities, of course, he doesn't want the area to be in peace
11:28
As much as there is just so much complete and utter heartbreaking tragedy in that region of the world
11:35
and has been for decades and decades, Hannah, that one of the crucible of civilisation has now got in charge of it a theocratic madman
11:47
madmen who subjugate the people of that country to the extent that it cannot fulfill the uh the
11:53
potential that it that it clearly has with the people that it clearly has such as yourself
11:57
that's correct that's correct that's people like me have to flee Iran because of the horrible
12:04
government instead of investing in the people they invest in Gaza investing in all different
12:10
countries around the world that bringing war to every country around the world so I'm very
12:17
sorry and i don't i do not agree with the callers that called few minutes ago well hannah i'm really
12:24
really grateful to you for ringing in as an iranian in this country um because i think it does
12:29
uh challenge some people's perhaps like biases um that all of iran is with the iranian revolutionary
12:36
guard corps as they set out on this uh path to destroy israel