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The Scoop Episode 1: Is it Healthy to Train Just to Look Good?
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Jan 30, 2025
Is it unhealthy to focus on exercising to look a certain way? The way you think about exercise will be flipped on its head in this episode of Myprotein’s The Scoop. We're talking to two great guests: intuitive movement expert, Tally Rye, and bodybuilder, Lubomba Munkuli, about whether we should stop focusing on aesthetic goals when it comes to training. Listen and subscribe to get the scoop on whether working for that six pack is really healthy. @TallyRye @Lubomba https://www.myprotein.com/podcast.list
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0:03
it's david lawker here and welcome back to myprotein's brand new podcast called the scoop where we do
0:08
just that we get you to scoop on the most nail-biting intense and controversial topics in fitness with our expert guests
0:14
providing the information to help you make your mind up on what to believe topics discussed in gyms homes pubs and
0:20
just about anywhere around the world surrounding sports nutrition and training this
0:25
is where you're gonna get the scoop should we stop focusing on aesthetic goals to discuss
0:32
this we have two brilliant guests tally an intuitive exercise advocate as well as an author
0:37
and host of train happy book and podcast and la bomba a bodybuilder who has built a career
0:44
around building a natural physique how's it going peeps
0:49
oh good oh good thanks for the um introduction yeah i'm excited yeah really good thank
0:56
you before we get stuck into the
1:02
nitty-gritty we're gonna have a little a little bit of fun our listeners can get to know you guys just
1:08
a tad bit more so we're gonna do a little this of that right i'm going to start with tally tell you you're going to kick this off with
1:13
me yeah yeah all right let's go early bird or night out
1:19
oh early bird curly fries or wedges
1:24
wedges strength or endurance strength uh radio or podcast
1:31
podcasts that's what i'm talking about no toes or no fingers
1:37
no toes dead lifts or squats dead lips never exercise again or never
1:44
speak again oh that's a tough one for me um
1:50
never exercise again uh personal chef or personal masseuse
1:55
personal masseuse you you fought a lot on that last one it was the most ram they're the most random combinations of
2:02
this all that questions ever so i love it i absolutely love it the bomb
2:07
are you ready to rock and roll yeah let's do this all right texting or calling
2:13
calling uh hot or cold holidays hot instagram or twitter instagram
2:21
scrambled or fried eggs scrambled uh mustache or bed beard
2:28
yes yes yes toilet paper over or under under [Laughter]
2:35
that one is such a key question all right some solid answers there i think i think that gives us a little a little
2:40
touch of insight into her into you both i see italian was in there saying under
2:46
over yes
2:59
and i'll change it because it's over it
3:06
because of gravity when you pull it down the natural rotation it makes it very easy to pull off yeah but on the top you've got like the
3:13
less cushioned side of the paper
3:20
this goes are you a scruncher or a folder or a folder yeah which way is it sold out all day every day uh i'm a
3:27
scrunchie yeah oh oh my dave we haven't even got into the start of the door
3:32
and we're already at war yeah it depends oh
3:40
i love it it sounds painful to me
3:46
it sounds to me it sounds very messy um
3:51
okay let's let's let's roll straight into it
3:57
should we stop focusing on aesthetic goals tally talk to me uh i believe so just to just so that
4:04
people can have a sustainable long-term um relationship with fitness
4:10
i've done both things i focus on aesthetic goals and focus on non-aesthetic goals and similarly with
4:15
my clients as well i find that people who think of aesthetics as a byproduct rather than the soul focus
4:23
tend to have not only a i think a healthier and more balanced relationship with fitness they just generally tend to
4:29
be able to maintain it more in the long term um and that obviously has an effect
4:34
on how they feel their levels of fitness and health and also their body image as well
4:40
the bomber sign tells me you you slightly or more than slightly disagree with that yeah do you think segregated degree i do
4:48
agree on one thing but um in terms of aesthetics i think we should definitely use aesthetics in
4:54
order to reference and to put things into context based on our goals and what we're trying to achieve and
5:00
really in terms of longevity it's again creating the relationship where the aesthetics are part of the
5:06
journey you know i don't think aesthetics should be the primary goal however this should contribute to our
5:13
agenda otherwise it kind of um
5:18
it doesn't you know it doesn't really make any sense i get what she's saying i i understand
5:24
what she's saying in terms of our mental state but aesthetics itself it's like
5:31
it's just one point of the overall uh overall things that we're
5:38
looking at overall things that we look into when when it comes to fitness so really when we're looking into
5:43
fitness it's like we need to look at both the aesthetics the mental state and the goal itself
5:49
but with social media that's a whole different topic i think when you know i'm trained as a
5:55
personal trainer i've been working for the last five years um actually almost six years
6:00
um and i have you know personal professional experience
6:06
i see that people can make progress in the gym without a necessarily drastic effect or any
6:12
change on their aesthetics so i i think um aesthetics can be
6:18
um like i said a byproduct for some people who are looking to work towards certain goals but i know that people can
6:24
get faster people can get stronger people can you know build better endurance um without having an aesthetic
6:32
change so i think by making it the focus i think we're doing fitness a disservice
6:37
because for me i just see so many people coming to fitness and going like i'm doing it for my summer body i'm doing it for my
6:43
abs i'm doing it to get this visible goal which we know that for so many people
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um you know looking at fitness covers and fitness magazines those aesthetics aren't attainable for the vast majority of the population
6:55
whether that's due to um their environment their genetics their socioeconomic status
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and also the time and energy it takes to go into those physics like la bomba i'm sure you are extremely
7:07
dedicated to your craft and what you do as a sport um and i think that we're looking at
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people like yourself who i would describe as like a fitness model and we're looking at that to say like
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that's what a fit person looks like and i think that's we should say that's not what a fit person looks like that's what a
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bodybuilding fitness model looks like however fit people can come in all shapes and sizes um
7:33
and so we should be trying to show that fitness doesn't have a quote look um and that
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it's some it's more of a physical state because it absolutely is a physical state i know people who have you know got the body
7:45
fat got the low body fat percentage got the muscle definition i asked them to do press-ups they're not doing them and yet i know people who
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are plus-sized who can smash out these incredible press-up combinations plyometric press-ups things like that that i i personally could never do
7:59
um and yet we would look at them and think you're not fitness you're not you know and i think um through my work
8:06
and through um my platform i just get a lot of people who are kind of
8:12
bored of this idea that health and fitness equates to anaesthetic and rather actually health and fitness
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equates to a feeling and i think that's what people are really getting into and i think we need a more we need to separate
8:25
that fitness is a look and recognize that there are people who are going to train for their looks because like
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you're well then you're right to do whatever you want um but like i think i take it you do
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bodybuilding competitions and like that's a sport and of itself and i think so this is where it gets interesting i
8:42
agree with what you're saying but the thing is okay based on what you're saying we need to change how we deliver the message so the message is not about you know
8:48
aesthetics and saying hey you need to achieve this physique because for some people it's attainable for some people it's not
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based on their genetic limit but the perspective which i'm coming from is we need aesthetics in
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order to pull things into context and in order to render the past and the future without aesthetics we won't be able to
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tell our progression as um in any given context so think of it this way
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whether you look at ford this is a ferrari most people might want a ferrari and people when they're looking at
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ferrari they're like okay you know okay it costs more but this in order to attain that kind of um uh
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kind of car you need to put in the work you need to you attain the funds to buy that car but if you want to afford it's like
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again it's more convenient you can buy it within your means so when it comes to bodybuilding it's like okay
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we understand in terms of aesthetics this is the limit of what aesthetics can be achieved
9:41
however this is not tethered for everyone so i feel like once we separated that people will begin to
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understand you know um more about ourselves rather than the very specific things that are promoted
9:53
uh on the media so a physique like mine i don't preach about people building a physique like mine i teach you the process the step by step
10:00
of how to achieve a physique like that what i do very vividly or what i do in
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terms of transparency is i show every step of the journey so i'm not saying that okay if you do exactly what i do you're
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gonna look like me no you're gonna look the best version of yourself so the goal here is to get people in the mindset where they
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believe that you know they're working towards their best version of themselves it's you know i feel that aesthetics are
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used as a way to justify usually most of the time people's insecurities
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again this might be painful for some people but people's laziness to a degree to say okay because this thing is so
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superior or it's very aesthetic there's no way i can achieve that and therefore i should aim a little bit lower
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we know in life you know you need to aim as high as you can in order to you know to your to your base on your
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goal to have a more fulfilling life so the goal is not aesthetics the goal is not the person that is in the magazine that's
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not the goal it's the process and the principles that they've applied and taught you
10:57
all right all right listen i hear that on both sides i see there's a there's a there's a place where you guys are coming together in the area of agreement
11:03
but but there's some some area of difference the question i'm going to ask and throw out is what if like i don't care
11:10
about fitness so to speak and all i care about is the image is to look that way like is
11:17
that what's wrong with that like what's wrong with me being somebody who's like you know what i like a krispy kreme
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three or four times a week i like a donut and i like you know what i mean uh a fried chicken every now and then
11:29
well when i say every now and then i mean more more often than the uh the regular person what's wrong with like my motivation
11:38
being to go to the gym so that i can live that way so i might not even be
11:44
interested in fitness there's nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with that that's just based on what you accept is okay so you can
11:51
pretty well do that but you can't expect to do that and look and look like the way i do because i don't do those things
11:56
of course there's you know uh there's moderation to things but if you're very excessive with what you eat and your lifestyle in
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that sense there's no way you can look at the guy in the magazine and be like oh i can't look like him because you know
12:09
because firstly i don't eat like that so if you're trying to use that as a goal for yourself the chances are it's not
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going to weight it's very contradictory to what you're trying to do and what you're trying to achieve but it's not a problem is focusing on
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aesthetic goals damaging do you think it's damaging um tally from that perspective like having that as a
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as a focus i think for many people it it can be damaging and it can um
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be a gateway to a disordered relationship with food with exercise
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and having poor body image and i say that from personal experience i got into bodybuilding i was doing my
12:45
training splits i was meal prepping i was doing all the right things i was clean eating i was doing
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exactly the kind of recommendations you recommended la bomba and i found myself becoming increasingly
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anxious around food i became you know i started categorizing foods into good and bad
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and by you know i think by saying that don't you know donuts were bad fried chicken was bad and that my my you
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know rice beans you know green beans and um chicken which i'm sure we've all
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consumed at some point on our fitness journey um what was was good and so
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i you know got kind of caught up in the cycle i became anxious if i didn't get in a
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certain amount of workouts every week and for me you know having done that for years
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it became unsustainable because it started to take a toll on my relationships on my mental health
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and it took a toll on me physically as well you know losing my period and things like that as i dropped to a weight that wasn't designed
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what that i'm not designed to be at so i want to also just quickly discuss david your point about
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can you eat what you want and go train and i assume you kind of meant to in a
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you know in a way to counter balance what you were eating so to burn it off yeah some people like i mean like some
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people just like they literally go to the gym when i say some people all right let's talk about me i had to go to the gym
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yeah because i know that because i like to eat do something i know myself very well i know that look i
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probably if i was to like just live normal i'd probably be quite around i don't i don't desire
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that so i'm like i'm not going to be the fitness that i mean the shape of somebody like
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the bomba because i'm not going to like completely disregard food
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like i live to eat like for me food is like it's it's like the passion of life so because i love food yeah i've lost this
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life itself i'm like you've got to taste life so because i love like food in itself i'm like i can literally go to the gym so that i
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can eat like literally do you know what i mean that's the reason why i woke up because that was me that was the i always was
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like i work out because i love to eat like i love food and what's been really interesting is i
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really try and help people um through my work my podcast and my book i really try and help people
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to not think of exercise as purely a means to counter balance what you eat as not a
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thing to earn and burn because when we get into that cycle we not only eat something and then and
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then imagine if you couldn't get to the gym the next day that's when we start getting to this disordered
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um relationship with food and exercise where you start to like freak out like i remember you know going to eat ice cream what
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like with friends and then the next morning be like right i have to go and do a heavy squat session now because i'm going to use those for my quote gains
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that was the mindset i was in um because that is the that is a very common mindset within the fitness
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industry and i think a lot of marketing likes to push exercise as a means to earn and burn food as a means to
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keep our body small now my work is really about pushing back against that because i think
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that is making us focus on saying that fit bodies or smaller bodies are better
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than bigger bodies which is slightly another argument but i think they are tied in this this focus on aesthetics is tied in
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to our preference as a society on one body to the other and you know saying that smaller bodies
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thinning bodies are better as you mentioned david yourself like to be in a bigger body that is a fear of yours that is a genuine fear and for so
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many that is a genuine fear that was a fear of mine and it's something i've had to work on
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and it sounds um uh intense but the term we call that is
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fat phobia so what that is is it's a um a kind of socially created fear of being
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in a bigger body and receiving the treatment that those in bigger bodies do because they get
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name called we make judgments on people who gain weight we treat people differently we may look at
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people on the beach and go oh should they really be wearing that all those things are forms of you know um stigmatizing people in a certain body
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so of course we use exercise to counter balance what we eat because we are we see what happens to the people
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who supposedly um live in bigger bodies and we are like right well we've got to
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control that however like i said i do think that really gets us stuck in this um all or nothing cycle with exercise
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and as i mentioned at the top of the podcast my main interest is getting people to wreck to exercise regularly
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to do the kind of movements that they enjoy because the other thing about having aesthetics as a goal is we do
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what we what um gets the best quote results and you and i know results mean lean
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shredded smaller thinner lighter all those words associated with having
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that smaller body so we're like okay that's what results do so we end up exercising in a way that we might not
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necessarily enjoy so for me that was bodybuilding i did it four years um and i kind of had to look back and say
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right if i'm not only exercising to control what my body looks like how else would i like to move and for me
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that has meant expanding what i say like my workout horizons literally thinking outside of the box of
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the gym and going what makes me feel good for me that's i've had been having swimming lessons i like doing spin classes i've been to
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the gym this morning i like doing weights but i don't want to lift as heavy as i used to and all of those things i'm still getting the health
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benefits of those things if you love food but you need to understand you know in terms of reality it's like okay
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especially in the fitness world it's like you know you're not you're not living in a in the most ideal
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world and scenario where you can eat whatever you want and look a certain way you know there's things that need to be
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done in order for you to attend the physique that you want then there's things that need to be done in order to um
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achieve the same goal that you see in your head so if you actually love food so this is
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what again it stems from what you your lifestyle choices and what you do as a person
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if you love food you need to understand again moderation is the key no one saying you can't eat the things that you're eating but don't put into your head an image
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which you can try to justify yourself for not making the decisions that you need to make in order to reach that physique so if
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food is the problem then it's okay how can you control your food if you have this fear of not looking um
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obese then you know we shouldn't there's no way in this reality that we should have obese as a problem but we know there is
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you know health consequences to being overweight yeah but again the image of overweight that is just based
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on you know that that just that's based on the individual you know michael something that would pass overweight is
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very different to you why should classes overweight what your classes always but very different to what i see but there has to be a limit to certain
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things and that's life so what i'm saying is again with the lifestyle itself it's like there has to
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be a routine there's a bit ritual and that's the understanding of food our relationship with food what's health you know which has the
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health benefits that we need in order to continue to continue living healthy and living a balanced lifestyle which is
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sustainable for me for me for what i do is very it's very sustainable
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but it just depends on the individual i agree with what you're saying both of you both what you're saying surrounding that yeah but what and the
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obama you touched earlier on the fact that your physique is a byproduct of the fitness that you're doing so to speak but the if if the overall
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goal for is fitness right what is wrong with the motivational factor
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being something else is is if we're all getting to where we need to get to start as in so that's what i'm
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saying because it's like end of the day i might not even like like i might be somebody because what if and i know what you're saying is what
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italian side of like do what you enjoy i might enjoy anything i might i might enjoy sitting down playing my computer
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game all day i might not even like to step outside to stay take one step
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the vehicle which you choose to get you there the vehicle which you used to get you there can be different to each person so for tennis you like swimming so as a
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swimmer you can attend a pretty damn good physique and you could be pretty very happy and satisfied as a bodybuilder you can use the vehicle
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to get you a static base if the aesthetics is the goal to get you there
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through weight training as a crossfitter you can use crossfit as a vehicle to get you there
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but the goal is not aesthetics like i said the goal is not aesthetics the goal again is to be functional to be happy to be comfortable
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but by product obvious aesthetics however in the world this is where it becomes more than fitness in the world of aesthetics we tend as
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humans to be attracted naturally to the things that are more aesthetic in architecture our study architecture
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so what the way we the way we look at things in life and facade is just based on our
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aesthetic preference so it just you know it's pretty uh i think we can all agree
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on a certain level that the certain things that we decide to do on a daily on a
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day-to-day basis that are driven by aesthetics how we dress how we look at what we you know grooming your beard you know
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getting a haircut it's all aesthetics there's our lives naturally they've always been like that for centuries
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since the days of adam and eve like the athletics is like it's part of
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the life it's part of the lifestyle so we can't make it as aesthetic as this problem it's not a problem because we look at aesthetics every single day in
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our lifestyle when you search for a home you look at the aesthetics you look at the lighting you look at the
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overall composition it's a collective so aesthetics is not the issue aesthetic is just one part of the
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problem the problem is it's like we can um the problem is
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people's problems internally until we fix that internally that's when we can figure out what the problem is because aesthetics has never
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been the issue because we can tell everyone you know you can eat like this train like this kind of like that and the chances are you might be pretty satisfied with what
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you have but don't look at someone else don't compare yourself to someone else otherwise you're gonna be very disappointed you know don't look at me
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as the goal for yourself because chances are you're not gonna look like me but the chances are if you follow those principles you might look like you know
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you might attain the best version of yourself through that process you might figure out a way or
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a routine which makes it sustainable for you and that's it i don't disagree with what is saying she's very much right by
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saying that you know sorry about uh being overall happy being overall a happy person
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having longevity to what you're doing but it's like for yourself don't put a cap on it don't
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don't put don't say an image of what that looks like i don't see an image of what i should look like i just train i enjoy the process i hear
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since you know i eat a certain way but i know that i just contributes to my overall progression as an individual for
23:23
my discipline for my commitment and my dedication and that's what i'm about i and i agree
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i absolutely don't think anyone should compare themselves to anyone else because i really think that's where like
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we all see we all manage to beat ourselves up over that and be like oh i could look like this and like that is what's
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you know scrolling instagram you know can either be wonderful for your self-esteem if you're following the right people
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or can really make you feel rubbish um so that's really that choice who makes that choice that
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is absolute you're right that is absolutely and i always say you know try and empower people to mute
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block restrict unfollow things that are maybe making them feel bad about themselves
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you're setting a boundary and that's a healthy thing to do for your mental health if you're finding things that are
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you know just things that annoy you if you're following things that are kind of like
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how far do we push that because you walk out the door you don't instantly put boundaries because you
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know it's a free world where people do what they want to do it's your choice to make the choice of what you want to digest
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you know you can't your account it is your choice so therefore you are talking about your spaces that you can control money
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probably comes in when we try to implement this across the uh set across the domain of social media
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we can't put limitations you know right now as you know the world is going through a whole transition where people
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feel a certain type of way and you know we're working on building systems to make it okay for certain beliefs even
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though it's just an internal thing fair enough is you know my joint people that might feel a certain way
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but it's like not everything has to conform to those things because it's just purely based on you as an individual
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so once we start pointing filters it's like then like ways like for myself it's like at which
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point will i start having restrictions based on how i look what i can post and what you think about what i post
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because i get people that judge me for how i do my thing but it's like that's my thing
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it's like you should be concerned about that and based on um making the choice you can make the choice of who you follow
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you know who you decide to learn from but again in terms of understanding we need to take the time to understand how why does the why does that person look
25:37
the way they do can i do that firstly can you do that maybe maybe not what can i learn from them i can
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implement in my lifestyle that can improve my lifestyle and then you choose for me personally i tend to follow people i can learn from
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and majority time based on what i do it tends to be photographers videographers people that create because
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i'm a creator as well as a bodybuilder so from that perspective i'm making the choice but it's like
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looking at aesthetics it's like that's not the problem it's like it's just based on you making the decision at the end of the day whether you like what you
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see or you don't so i don't think it should be it shouldn't even be a discussion of okay you know i feel some type of way because
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this person is posting content that's up to you nobody asks you to follow that person well some people do
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actively press follow that is how generally social media works so they do follow them but i think it's also worth
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saying like
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i cannot control how people feel about the content i put out there i cannot control how you're going to respond to
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everything i say that's just as humans we need to learn that and i can't control for everyone to like me because that's something that's a
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really important lesson to learn one thing but also but if you're consuming it you can control what you consume in a
26:46
sense if it's affecting you in a negative way i think it's only fair to say however i do agree that i think
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something that we could do more of is i appreciate some people do need to
26:58
create absolute safe spaces for them and not look at things that um you know they may
27:05
find difficult but i also think yeah but i'm trying to understand why would you have to create a safe
27:11
space when it's your choice when you follow someone it's like if you follow person and they make you feel bad because maybe what you're
27:17
trying to go for is unachievable based on your goal is that once did you follow them in the first place it's like you can't follow
27:22
somebody maybe you've changed maybe you've evolved maybe you've got maybe you just feel in a different way and then
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you're more than entitled to just say i'm gonna unfollow it's not making me feel good um on the next person however
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like as a point i was just trying to say um is that we should i think it's important sometimes to not get
27:40
completely caught in our own echo chambers and to you know look outside of our echo
27:45
chambers and look outside of our safe spaces if we're in the privileged position to do so and
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you know see other people's perspective like i think this is a really healthy conversation to have because you know i follow a lot of people that
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think the way i think and you know promote the message around exercise that i promote but i think this is really
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interesting to hear your perspective on it and i think that's important and so i think you know like you like these kind of
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discussions are very important to have if we're going to make any progress as an industry as a whole that's really good and i just
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wanted to point out because we've chatted on a little bit since but i wanted to point out about your point about aesthetics
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of um you know how we've always had aesthetics as a thing and i would say i would reframe aesthetics as beauty standards
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and you know um beauty ideals body ideals that we're set up to aim for and particularly as women um
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we are very much set you know we feel very much a pressure to you know
28:42
have a certain uh meet a certain beauty standard and you know attain a certain physique um
28:51
because of um the patriarchy essentially so you've got like if you understand the
28:57
patriarchal society which is generally headed up by white men they're setting these standards
29:03
um through like we said through consumption of media magazines social media all these things that kind of you know the way the kind of algorithm
29:10
pushes up you know beautiful people on social media we have these pressures
29:15
and standards to me and you know so aesthetics have become a huge part of what
29:21
um fitness is because as women we're feeling these beauty standards but as fitness industry we've tried to
29:26
monetize the solution and therefore we see a lot of like sadly the fitness industry as a whole
29:31
sees a lot of profit in making people feel insecure about having cellulite about
29:37
um you know not having a toned abs and they will therefore market their
29:42
products too you know six weeks to six pack or get lean and 50. i think so
29:49
marketing is pushed towards aesthetics because that's where people are vulnerable and that's where
29:54
people will spend their money to try and look like you and the industries will do that
30:00
yeah i think i think i think what um what italian's basically saying is in essence that we our tastes
30:07
yes some of it does come from us internally but there's external influence that yeah that we
30:13
have consumed and that we've consumed throughout life since like before we was even able to make choice that we've grown up in a
30:18
system that's kind of like um enabled or kind of pushed us towards a certain viewpoint in essence and then
30:26
within that framework we make our choices surrounding like okay do i like this or do i like that but at the same time that
30:32
we can't ignore uh
30:40
evolution of human progression in terms of our aesthetics as a whole that's natural progression of what we like in
30:46
the taste again that's based on you know the each generation you know there's a very particular taste
30:52
in each generation there's a very particular style throughout the years before each decade however yes i get it
30:58
there's influences but again that's just completely up to you what you decide to digest and which information you decide
31:03
to consume but down to the root you know as a person you need to be
31:08
very confident and strong enough to understand that you like what you do so the question of the day is are you even
31:14
happy making that decision no one's forcing it on you every day you need to say yes or no so certain aesthetics no one's saying
31:20
okay you know here you know make sure you you know no one's forcing it down you yes there's an influence but
31:26
at the end of the day you make the decision yes or no to take that decision and if you're coming from a place
31:32
of uh confidence strong will it's you know those influences wouldn't
31:38
make a difference it wouldn't make a difference but as
31:43
humans naturally progression it's like again we're heading towards something i think the way that the fitness
31:49
industry in like the last decade two decades has particularly marketed fitness though you don't feel like you have
31:56
options um and i know that certainly when i was first look at getting you know really into
32:01
fitness you know seven eight years ago and i was like going online reading the articles reading all this stuff
32:06
like everything boiled down to exercise equals like to lose weight to achieve a certain aesthetic and
32:12
i actually was trying to get um fitter to i wanted to be an actress and
32:19
perform and that's what i wanted to do and i was trying to get fit for that job but through the through all the kind of
32:24
stuff i was consuming it was like fitness always boiled down to like you're doing fitness good
32:29
if you you know can get an inch off your waist if you can you know have a more define a
32:36
bit you know a more a bigger butt or you know whatever the kind of um beauty standard was and so i think what
32:43
the problem is is despite yes we absolutely can make choices i think for so many of us
32:49
it feels like there is only one choice and only one option for fitness and that's why i'm really passionate and why i wrote my book train happy um
32:56
because i felt that there was no other option for people to get into fitness it was either about
33:01
losing weight and getting like abs or whatever or you were like oh what was the point
33:08
like to me i was like if i'm not doing that why am i doing it what's even the point you know as you said like i like food
33:15
what's the point i that looks like a whole lot of effort and i also think this obsession with aesthetics actually alienates a lot of
33:21
people from getting into exercise because um some people are like i don't care like my sister is like
33:26
she's not motivated by aesthetics she's like i don't care but if i you know i wrote my book with
33:32
the outlining the the mental health benefits the effects it has on your brain to help prevent
33:37
dementia later in life the way that it can help you reduce risk or certain cancers the way that um it can just make you
33:44
feel good you can socialize with people through fitness whether it's like doing a class or being involved in a team or something and so i think
33:51
sadly we kind of miss that perspective on it and we get kind of very like this narrow view of
33:57
what fitness looks like so if you look like one of the biggest you know the biggest fitness brands and the models used on pages up until you
34:03
know probably the last like two years we were seeing a very um a standard or fitness that we were
34:10
trying to achieve so the thing is like let's give people options even if you give people the option to do that
34:16
people will still be perplexed over their own decisions so you give people these options again based on those options are known
34:22
someone might end up doing something a certain way and you're going to turn around in that little small community that's more collective people
34:29
will start again uh curating these problems again it's just you know it's gonna it's bound
34:35
to happen it's again that's what you know my biggest issue is it always stems away
34:40
it always stems from the person themselves as a collective if we can change our mindset the things will change but we can't put
34:47
these boundaries in place or these ideal environments because again that's never going to happen nothing will ever change unless if the
34:53
people change so like you know based on what you're saying again if we give people the options it's like again when you have those
35:00
options it's like what the what problems are those options going to bring and when it comes to fitness
35:06
i just want to touch base on this for me for what i do when i was 17 16 16 17 18 coming into
35:13
the fitness industry coming into the building world i was told in order to build a physique you have to be on steroids you have to be
35:19
enhanced this was all the information reading articles people like yeah you need to do x y z in order to get big
35:26
however as an individual i did not agree with that i didn't i did not conform to that i took my own route and my life is based
35:32
on proving that wrong even to this day my statement at some point when i've reached my pinnacle is to prove a point that you can do it
35:38
regardless of what xyz told you is very well possible so again if i create that community for myself
35:45
that collective of people as a movement we can change that however the problem i completely understand with
35:51
fitness we've put we've drilled into people's heads that we have to do things a certain way in order to achieve this
35:58
which is a problem however there's again the options already there just based on whether you have the confidence to take them
36:03
so on a daily basis again i get accusations people that you know think um i don't believe in what i do
36:09
people that think i'm lying as a natural bodybuilder put that in my bio people like why do you put that in your bio there is no way your physique is
36:14
attainable naturally but i'm constantly going every day to prove a point again at the beginning
36:21
i i didn't know i wasn't sure when it started i didn't know who to rely on i didn't know what the truth was but i can only prove for myself when i
36:29
do achieve what i think is the pinnacle of natural bodybuilding when i get there but as for now i'll keep you know walking the road
36:35
whether people think i you know whether people believe me or not but that's on me i make that decision so
36:41
for people they need to make the decision whether they help with what they're doing at the end of the day i'm very heavily satisfied because i know i'm healthy
36:47
i know there's longevity to what i'm doing and i've been wanting problems any health issues that will pop up so
36:54
again it always stems down to the individual and then as a collective will realize oh there's actually more to
36:59
this thing let me let me fire a quick question at you yeah yeah you spoke a little bit about your start
37:05
was you was your initial start aesthetic was that was that your initial motivation for getting into what you
37:10
because you mentioned wanted to get bigger and whatever yeah was the aesthetic your it was it wasn't it wasn't it was it
37:15
wasn't my pure gold the reason to get into what i did how to get into this was to
37:20
be better so initially uh before this whole fitness bodybuilding thing
37:25
i played basketball football i was five foot eight five foot eight you know roughly weighing probably let's say 120 pounds
37:32
and i was one of the smallest by the most athletic kid however in order to develop the strength and power to compete with the bigger guys i
37:38
spent more time in the gym to build myself again there's another statement you know to build myself to improve as a person
37:45
not for the aesthetic goals but to perform so from that perspective the byproduct
37:51
of that process was aesthetics based on yeah based on my genetic potential based on my genetic makeup of
37:58
what i could look like but someone else might look at that and be like oh that must be the goal in order to be
38:03
that person all right we need to break it down that makes sense that makes sense but the
38:08
question i'm going to ask for both back at both of you basically is this what is wrong with somebody pursuing
38:16
aesthetics and getting fitness as a byproduct if that's the most yes or something it's
38:22
there but at some point you're going to be disappointed at some point you're going to be disappointed right because you realize
38:28
that it's unattainable because that's what you're what's unattainable
38:34
yeah exactly but it depends on what the vision is isn't it because the mission doesn't have to be that the
38:39
written doesn't have to be looking like arnold you know like him yeah yeah division
38:44
might not be arnold the vision might just be i want to have a defined chest and shoulders
38:50
and maybe a little thought pack that might be divisible all right that might be division and then you
38:55
might just catch a little catch a little uh a little fitness you know i mean on the back end don't another thing is when you get there when
39:01
you get there don't complain and say oh oh my god this is actually harder than i thought because that is the trade you know the
39:06
trade of the work of which you're doing it's hard work so every day it's like don't complain if it's too hard for you because that's the
39:12
cost of it so as a person you need to be developed enough to sustain what you're doing so in terms of developing this mindset
39:19
you need to train yourself not everyone's hated to do what i do because you said you know it takes a
39:24
very disciplined lifestyle hence why you know it works hand in hand with the aesthetics in order to maintain
39:29
that you need to live the lifestyle you need to be like that nobody's forcing upon you you make the choice on a daily basis
39:37
to obtain that so but don't put that as the god and complain about oh my god this is too high oh my god i can't eat the cake you can
39:43
eat the cake however you don't need to be so strict with your with your
39:50
with whatever goal you have in mind you know i mean it's like complicated subject but again
39:57
it's all based on the individual end of the day if you're happy doing what you're doing and you look at certain type of way that's okay but don't look at the person
40:04
next to you that looks a little bit better than you based on your vision and say oh yeah but he looks a little bit better than me maybe i'll start
40:09
cutting nobody asking you to cut just be happy with what you have you know what i'm saying like nobody's
40:15
asking you to be that person so build your physique based on how you want to be live your lifestyle based on how you
40:20
want to live your lifestyle this is what we should be promoting you know of course i think my product naturally we're going to be more
40:26
inclined to look at the things that would look more slightly appealing so let's not um that's not that's no one's problem
40:32
not just a natural human behavior so naturally again this is why things will never change
40:37
because we're like certain things a certain way just based on how we like our environment to make us more clear
40:43
and tell you that you're triggering tally you're triggering over it she was with you at a certain point and then you started triggering i could see it
40:50
here coming really interesting because i think we do agree on some points on that it's really interesting and i also think
40:56
um at your point david about training for a certain aesthetic and like wanting that i just wonder if some people like
41:01
do that and then they kind of the goal post change again and then you're like oh and then i could get a bit more and a bit
41:07
more and i think that's where people kind of end up um i think sadly people do compare
41:13
themselves and they do kind of go like oh i'm really happy and then they might go on you know go on social media and go like oh but
41:20
mine's not good enough that is an individual thing but i think that's culturally
41:26
informed and socially based on my statement i made it again it's okay to make reference
41:31
and put things into context so like i said in terms of in the world of architecture
41:37
you know we always make reference to the past in order to build the future so in order to make reference of your
41:42
current physique you need to understand where you've come from and where you're going by that process alone you should have
41:47
learned something you know a thing or two about yourself if you haven't then you're just wasting your time however making these references will be
41:54
able to give you enough knowledge and understanding of where you are and your next decision you know if
41:59
you're why you know if the aesthetics over sorry if you're white overrides aesthetics and
42:04
what you're doing you should be pretty content with what you're doing and if you're not that means something's broken and i think yeah and i think even if we
42:11
compare ourselves to others as if we compare ourselves ourselves so like if we think about before and after photos which are like commonplace within
42:16
the fitness industry that clearly shows that we have a preference for one body over the other
42:22
so regardless of whether we can say you know like i've mentally transformed myself if we're seeing a potential like a
42:29
bigger body and then a smaller body and we're saying like i'm much happier in this body i think regardless of
42:34
whatever transformation images are the images are so strong that we just know that um there is a preference
42:41
whether we acknowledge it or not for that start that physique mental transformation mental
42:46
transformation does not have a visual spectrum mental transformation you can't visually see it agreed so why
42:52
i don't know so therefore we use aesthetic we use aspecting as we use aesthetic as a metric to
42:59
justify or to make your decisions based on certain things so mentally i i fully agree with you mental transformation is incredible
43:04
right but there's no visual spectrum but i think adventure is a physical change which you're able to prove based on
43:10
before i love your passion with this i love your passion i love your passion in this
43:15
yeah i think what time is basically trying to say here is that it shouldn't be the sole only metric or standard of
43:22
which people use i know you're talking about the you know the mental knowledge that you attain but there's also stuff like
43:27
i guess like strength like oh man i can lift more this week than i lifted last week oh i can run faster than i could run
43:33
last week or i can there are there are a lot other things that are not given as much glory
43:38
as as the as the physical and i think that's the area in which that's the area in which i think okay
43:44
i'm here that is why i do what i do because if you do follow my content you fully well know if i'm having a bad day
43:50
because i'll tell you and you'll be able to literally see if my deadlift was 100 kilograms lighter than it was last
43:56
week i'll show you so i think that it just is at the end of the day it's based on people's um moral boundaries or justifying
44:03
themselves what's okay to post so in terms of posting freedom people just need to post what they need to post
44:09
but you need to fully understand that okay you might not be getting the full context of what's going on but what i do
44:15
personally i'd share transparency everything so if last week i was doing 50
44:20
50 kilograms less than i did you see it because we understand the
44:25
road to success or to this vision is up and down however in the long term it's still going to continue growing
44:31
if i skip a meal i skipped a meal yesterday however again this is where it gets interesting for me personally if i skip a meal i
44:38
look leaner look sharper i look you know more as if i've been dieting the following morning
44:43
someone won't look at me like oh my god this guy's so lean how but for me that's not my goal i don't want to look like that
44:48
it happened so that i missed a meal now actually happened to look better than what i did yesterday because if i get my
44:53
meals a little bit bigger a little bit fluffier but i'm okay with that but the person that's reading the information
45:00
will assume that i'm always lean or i look lean based on those things so it's all based on us as individuals
45:06
to make the decision to you know to share we have to be more transparent transparency is everything
45:11
that's probably why so if we're more transparent transparent with what we do and honest with what we do i think as a whole we
45:18
should be you know on the right direction to making a change and i think what i think we kind of need to be
45:24
like honest as a whole into like talk about the way like how prevalent things like eating disorders are within
45:30
certain sports like bodybuilding and how you know people do suffer you know one um you know one in
45:37
four people who may go on a diet that could result in disordered eating if not an eating
45:42
disorder so we have to be really mindful of like to be truly honest about those sorts of things and i
45:47
also wanted to say ultimately what this all comes down to is self-objectification and
45:53
objectification of people we objectify other people's bodies we see but we also therefore end up objectifying ourselves and for me and
46:00
for anyone listening who has been in the kind of mindset of like you know trying to get a physique
46:06
doing everything they can beating themselves up along the way and just not feeling like that they they got the
46:11
supposed like goal aesthetic and they actually didn't feel much better about themselves or they found that they had to maintain
46:16
a certain um for me it was like certain level of disorder to maintain that which was just not sustainable for life
46:22
um it's important to just be mindful and look for something i really am
46:28
passionate about is just saying to people like you're more than what you look like you are more than your body
46:34
and um i really encourage people to like put the emphasis on what they can
46:40
physically do and achieve and accomplish um in terms of
46:45
you know like you said whether it is like increasing the weight on your deadlift i'm all for celebrating those
46:51
things i'm all for pushing people to um you know whether they want to try and get faster
46:56
they're like 5k time it's not necessarily getting faster those things but obviously getting better again it's
47:01
just the pure of you know it's just documenting the journey ups and downs you know this isn't chasing the goal it's not the goal it's the mental state
47:07
behind it it's developing like i don't think you always have to like i always say like you can have goals but you also can absolutely not
47:13
have goals if you want to and just be whatever you want and that's totally fine i think what i'm getting at is that
47:20
there's an element of self-objectification and objectification here and within that we can get stuck in like
47:28
um we can get caught up in a lot of like body shame with that and you know particularly i mean and then we shouldn't but we
47:34
didn't we should i agree one thing that you i've really agreed with you
47:40
in terms of uh what you said about the uh patriarchy okay in terms of the top guy you know
47:46
the top guy in nasa who owns a any media distribution
47:52
agency magazine or online platform you know that person has been neutral enough in order to deliver different types of
47:59
content for example okay let's say in the uh women's fitness world yeah come to understand
48:06
okay we might be pushing more towards uh an aesthetic physique from preference in terms of where
48:14
i see the issue based on what you said the patriarchy thing it's
48:22
from my perspective i think everything is okay i have no problem
48:27
with a very athletic girl i thought you'd say no problem with the patriarchy
48:40
uh okay i appreciate to see a girl that has attained a physique through um her ability uh say if she's a
48:47
swimmer she's gonna look a certain way that being said it's completely okay for a woman to be a woman based on how she looks and
48:53
how she feels i mean for me i never you know in terms of like digesting the information that i see on
48:59
social media think it's completely okay for a woman to be the way they are with no
49:04
limitations pressing my personal preference as a woman i'm not asking you to be shredded personally that's not my personal preference i want to go for a woman
49:10
that's like diced to this ox like aesthetic like for me that doesn't do it
49:16
so i get it inside of the patriarchy the person the person that's making the decision they should definitely get we should get
49:21
rid of that i agree in terms of marketing is what we promote should get rid of that because i'm i think i guarantee much of
49:27
the men that could be watching this it's like in terms of our preferences for men we actually prefer
49:32
we prefer a wide spectrum of women from being skinny too thick or again in terms
49:38
of where the trend is going now like you said women with bigger bombs that's what everyone's going for but you know 500 years ago that was
49:45
completely normal for a woman to be slightly bigger slightly thicker and that was okay whereas now especially 10 years ago the image
49:52
shifted to be you know slightly slimmer so that's that's only based on what this person at the top is making you know
49:57
based on the decision of what we can consume from the media so yeah the media needs to change the vehicle which will
50:02
deliver these things needs to change as a whole as people we need to portray what we prefer but social media is the perfect platform
50:08
to do that because we're seeing a diverse diverse diverse shapes people from all
50:14
backgrounds in all different environments so i very much agree with what you're saying about eddie you know the underlying
50:22
issues that let's not create a um
50:27
let's not start putting a i might say into people that it's okay to have issues you know based
50:33
on what other people look like because that one is sorry that within itself is only based on the individual
50:39
so we can't look at someone else and be like okay i can attain this therefore that's an issue this is not an issue the issue's you
50:45
like i really appreciate what you said and i'm probably gonna lose a lot of uh friends by saying this but actually just
50:51
insinuate uh suggesting sorry that um that your preference on what a woman
50:58
looks like whether she's thin or thick that in itself self is a patriarchal view of beauty because
51:06
in a feminist approach we don't care what you think that's irrelevant to how i get to show
51:11
up in the world and that's irrelevant to how women show up in the world because we're not the thing is um it's to do with the male gaze and
51:18
sadly a lot of fitness has um been the lens of the male gaze whether that's from a female perspective and a male perspective because women can
51:24
we can internalize that as well we generally are looking through the line why do we draw the line i don't
51:31
i i say that i should not like a certain thing basically you should like you can like whatever you want but you don't need to
51:38
you don't need to tell people that like you can have a prep you can have a preference but i'm just saying like it's
51:45
um you know you can have your personal preferences the way that i have my personal preferences but what i'm saying is like as a woman
51:53
if that's irrelevant to the way i can show up like i don't need to regardless of whether someone's like oh
51:58
i like girls you know thick i like girls thin like as women we we get to show up however we wanted
52:05
and that's the woman again i guess could be irrelevant but sadly due to well the way that women feel
52:12
better others um that you don't
52:27
so you don't have your favorite color but what do you prefer in terms of okay do you prefer coffee or tea
52:33
i don't like either okay uh sweet or sour sweet sweet or sour again going back to
52:38
the question but that sweet me liking sweet food is not informed by the patriarchy so it's irrelevant it's
52:44
not well no no my taste of what i like is not you know it's not dictated by what the picture i
52:50
can say like once again it's massively informative but that's an irrelevant point but i think it's not that's what i don't know that's
52:56
what i don't understand i think let's make that point because i think that's important to just discuss it like that with that main gaze within this
53:02
conversation but i think ultimately when we come back to putting emphasis on
53:08
um to stop the cycle of self objectification and something i always say and something i really want people to hear is
53:14
a phrase by a it's a non-profit organization in america um run by two um sisters actually called
53:21
uh lindsay and lexi kite it's called beauty redefined and they have a phrase that says your body is an instrument to
53:27
be used not an ornament to be looked at and for me personally in healing my body image and getting to
53:34
a good place where i don't need to rely on other people's view on whether i'm attractive or not and i don't need to
53:40
um present myself in a certain way i just get to be in my body how i want to be in my body that phrase was so key for me and i know
53:47
it's so powerful for so many people in overcoming this pressure to achieve a certain
53:52
aesthetic in bodybuilding we use aesthetics to make reference of what we should be working towards not
53:58
what we should look like it's in you know in bodybuilding aesthetics is a byproduct of what's been
54:05
uh achieved through the advancement of nutrition advan advancement of training so as as
54:11
humans what's our how can we judge advancement of our well-being and living you know we don't need to
54:18
create an external structure so modern issue comes in when we try to create an external
54:24
structure to justify our own insecurities and problems let's not be you know let's not be naive
54:29
and you know let's not be naive and think everything is okay no one has insecurities because
54:34
we all have insecurities but let's not use that as a driving force to justify why something is wrong for another person or
54:40
why the things are happening the way they are i agree with what you said about the patriarchy yeah it's wrong to be
54:45
promoting you know all these beautiful women and men ensure more of a divest
54:52
uh scope of people which is right which is correct and that's what we should be doing
54:59
i'm going to ask you very quickly each of you for a quick piece of influence and advice what would
55:05
you what what would you um advise to our listeners i think uh you touched on it
55:10
um briefly to telly i think my biggest piece of advice would be and the kind of opening line of my book is
55:17
how would you move your body if it didn't have to have if it didn't impact your weight or aesthetics
55:23
how do you choose to move your body and start from there in terms of discovering what you enjoy doing
55:28
and you know think broad and wide about different ways to move your body i
55:33
talk about in my book things from like rugby to mountain climbing to pole dancing to um you know to strong man training
55:42
there are so many different ways to move your body and ultimately i'm just interested in encouraging people to have a positive
55:48
relationship to exercise that they can enjoy you know for the long term and to feel good about themselves in the process
55:54
so yeah just think outside the box and uh find the movement that works for you
56:00
sweet the bummer so for all the viewers out there uh in terms of uh being happy with yourself
56:05
do things based on what makes you happy and something that's gonna increase the longevity of what you're doing
56:10
make sure it's sustainable and if it's very fulfilling by all means stick with our thing because it's what's
56:16
going to keep you sane and happy and really do not look at the general comparison to other people and
56:24
if you happen to appreciate something that's beyond your capabilities
56:29
do not do do not look at that as a flaw learn from it and see what you can learn from that person and implement that into your lifestyle
56:36
because potentially that might improve what you're trying to achieve but always be open to learn from other
56:42
people and just look forward and be happy with what you're doing and i'm pretty sure it will work out thank you
56:49
so much we've just got a couple of questions uh from our listeners uh to you both if you could never go to
56:55
the gym again which sport would you take up if anything bmxing
57:01
bmx's yeah yes all right i like that i like that
57:08
thrill seeker has tally made you reconsider at all how you think about
57:13
your training or body image uh
57:19
to a degree yes i'm more aware of how everyone else thinks but based on what i do know okay
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because i mean majority things like she's uh where the message stems from i do agree with so fundamentally i feel like you know
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low-key we are talking about the same thing but just in different contexts absolutely absolutely and
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talia a couple for you um has it been easy transitioning to intuitive eating and movement um to be honest it's the
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best thing i ever did and i think kind of both of those things are frameworks one is intrusive eating
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is a framework of 10 principles created by dietitians in how to have a good relationship with food and intuitive movement is something
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that i've written about within my book and kind of taken those principles and applied them to both though to my to
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fitness and both those things the best things i did because the way i was going and the approach and mindset to which i had
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towards um food and exercise was not sustainable it was making me a very anti-social person making me a very anxious person
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and making me constantly pick apart myself in the mirror so doing those things has really helped me
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find peace with food i'm able to go out to eat and not worry about it and
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um and enjoy all foods without the fear of um what you know um of
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um certain foods that you know i had deemed bad in the past and similarly with fitness um it's
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really i've really enjoyed it because it's made me think outside literally the gym the box of the gym i was such a regular
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gym goer that just doing different things um has been really fun to to do and like
58:57
learning the new skill of swimming at the end of last year has been so good and actually got in the pool for the first time since lockdown
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yesterday and i hadn't forgotten i hadn't forgotten what i was doing um and i had the best time and i felt
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really proud of myself that i'd like learn a new skill i'd love to say and um something which i discussed on my own
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podcast recently with um the guest evelyn tribley is how becoming more intuitive in
59:21
food and fitness has just made me um have a better sense of like agency and and a greater sense of
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like who i am as a person and i think you know this has all been happening like through my 20s i'm nearly 30
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and as i get towards that i kind of definitely know myself a lot better know who i am um i've grown a lot as a person like
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it's it's kind of opened the doors for me to grow so much and you know that has meant
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um you know not being bothered about what i look like and everything like that has meant that i can do things like write a book like i never
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had the headspace when i was obsessed with macros to think about anything other than oh my
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training and exercise whereas now i have this whole thing i got to write a book which is mind-blowing to me because i never
1:00:04
anticipated that i would be doing that so yeah it's been huge huge huge massive thank you to our two
1:00:11
guests taliana obama who's given us some incredible insight a lot of passion as well in um in their thoughts about
1:00:18
this topic um so please guys keep the conversation going via social media using the hashtag
1:00:24
the scoop get involved in the comments as well and don't worry we'll be back again soon
1:00:29
for another episode i've been david o'lauca you've been watching the scoop thanks for listening
1:00:49
you
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